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Toyota Corolla Altis Facelift Launched


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#31
jayraptor

Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:07 PM

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QUOTE (TheGunner @ Oct 6 2010, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are right in that sense. EPS has lower power consumption compared to hydraulic power steering, so the claims of reduced weight and petrol are true. The degree of these savings, however, vary from car to car.

Enthusiasts shun the EPS like a plague, suggesting that this setup robs feel and feedback. I don't disagree with this, as many EPS-equipped vehicles have very wooden and over-assisted steering and cases in point include the previous-generation Honda City and the Nissan Sylphy. However, the new BMW 5 Series uses EPS, and it seems to deliver a fine amount of feedback.

An interesting case is Hyundai. The i10 and i30 2.0 use EPS and both actually feel good to steer. In contrast, the new Sonata with hydraulic power steering did not feel as interactive.


Hi Gunner,

Manufacturer claims EPS saves weight, power & FC by just tiny the few percent (3-5%) that can't even see nor feel the difference other than feelingless steering. If engine does not have proper valve timing control & variable air intake system will still guzzle fuel. Electric motor will not last longer than hydraulic rack & pinion actuator.

Talking about failsafe, without power especially battery's dead, the hydraulic power steering can still turn the car. Even if aux belt torn, the hydraulic power steering can still steer though feels heavy like Kancil's. No prob no worry on motor overheating or damage.

Besides, the auxiliary belt will still be there to pull A/C, alternator pulleys even with EPS. No harm having it to pull power steering pulley. Sonata YF using hydraulic power steering? That'll be great if it's true. I hope Altis 1.8E should retain d old hydraulic power steering for higher practicality.

#32
flee

Posted 08 October 2010 - 01:55 PM

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Yes, sometimes I wonder if developments are for the better or worse. Another example is LED tail lights - I cannot see much benefit in this other than stylish looks.

I think that in countries where labour costs are high, the EPS is also much better as maintenance is simpler. Hydraulic systems can leak (esp in cold countries where temperature changes in winter and summer can be considerable) and high pressure hoses have to be replaced. That is definitely a bigger job than replacing an EPS motor.

Newer EPS systems are beginning to be as good as hydraulic ones and I think that the trend will be towards EPS in the years to come.
Regards,
Flee



#33
TheGunner

Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:54 PM

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QUOTE (jayraptor @ Oct 8 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Gunner,

Manufacturer claims EPS saves weight, power & FC by just tiny the few percent (3-5%) that can't even see nor feel the difference other than feelingless steering. If engine does not have proper valve timing control & variable air intake system will still guzzle fuel. Electric motor will not last longer than hydraulic rack & pinion actuator.

Talking about failsafe, without power especially battery's dead, the hydraulic power steering can still turn the car. Even if aux belt torn, the hydraulic power steering can still steer though feels heavy like Kancil's. No prob no worry on motor overheating or damage.

Besides, the auxiliary belt will still be there to pull A/C, alternator pulleys even with EPS. No harm having it to pull power steering pulley. Sonata YF using hydraulic power steering? That'll be great if it's true. I hope Altis 1.8E should retain d old hydraulic power steering for higher practicality.


If you ask me, I still prefer the feel of a good old hydraulic assisted rack.

The Sonata YF does use a hydraulic rack, but to my surprise, when I drove it, it did not feel like it had one. US market versions of the Sonata use EPS.
The Gunner

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#34
TheGunner

Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:55 PM

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QUOTE (flee @ Oct 8 2010, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Newer EPS systems are beginning to be as good as hydraulic ones and I think that the trend will be towards EPS in the years to come.


If even BMW goes to electric power steering, you can bet the rest will follow suit eventually. Interestingly enough, the W212 continues to use a hydraulic power steering, and the mechanism actually de-couples when steering assist is not needed.
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#35
alldisc

Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:46 PM

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QUOTE (jayraptor @ Sep 29 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Practicality:
Not much electronic gadget, bad thing is EPS is compusory in 1.8E. I want hydraulic power steering. Turning circle improved from 10.6M down to 10m. 1.8 & 2.0 have 60:40 splitfold, very good.

In comparison Altis vs Civic vs Sylphy:
2.0
output : 147PS@6200rpm (descent enough with over-rev tech) vs Civic 2.0's 155PS@6500rpm
torque : 187Nm@3600rpm (HEY!! they limited the torque to 187Nm. Other countries get 194Nm@4000rpm)
vs Civic's 188Nm@4500rpm
kerb weight 1315kg (same as Civic 2.0)

1.6
120@6000 (old Altis 110ps@6000rpm) >> power is good, no over-rev available.
154@5200 (old Altis 146Nm@4400rpm) >> 154@5200 is sort of high compared to Forte 1.6's 154Nm@4300rpm. If at 4400rpm does it mean that the Altis has torque of around 148Nm range? Possibly just tuned slightly better than old Altis but have higher limiter.
kerb weight 1250kg >> drastic increased over old model at 1190kg.

Price RM105k >> still ok. Downside no split fold and high RPM for the torque, might not go for this due to many competitors such as Cruze, Forte and coming soon Avante, Verna RB, Focus, etc.


jay, good comment you have there. but let me add some ideas from a different perspective.

in my point of view for the altis 2.0 to produce 187Nm at 3,600rpm is fabulous as the Civic 2.0 produce 188Nm but at 4,500rpm!! who knows what is the torque figure for Civic 2.0 at 3,600rpm? i believe a lot less than the Altis.

EPS has its own advantage.
1. first it doesnt use any form of hydraulic fluid so it will never leak. peace of mind
2. it is electrically driven means no strain on engine. more power and lower fuel consumption. engine idle can be lower, example camry at only 600rpm. good for exhaust emission control.
3. there is no drive belt - no chance of the pwr strg failure because drive belt snapped at all. peace of mind

the EPS also can be tuned whether for performance or normal drive. for Corolla Altis, it is meant more towards normal drive and therefore the feel and weighing is designed to be that way. try change the standard 16" alloys to 17" like the one on Civic and with wider and heavier wheels/tyres i believe it will improve.

as for the prices, lets do some comparison

Corolla SEG AE111 (last model with twin airbag in year 2000) sold for 110K.

this Altis 1.6 which is bigger in all dimensions and better equipped/specs is selling at 105K. bear in mind for over a period of 10 years UMW has not increased the price of a Corolla 1.6 at all but rather, goes downwards. greedy?

#36
singtech

Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:32 PM

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QUOTE (alldisc @ Oct 8 2010, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
jay, good comment you have there. but let me add some ideas from a different perspective.

in my point of view for the altis 2.0 to produce 187Nm at 3,600rpm is fabulous as the Civic 2.0 produce 188Nm but at 4,500rpm!! who knows what is the torque figure for Civic 2.0 at 3,600rpm? i believe a lot less than the Altis.

EPS has its own advantage.
1. first it doesnt use any form of hydraulic fluid so it will never leak. peace of mind
2. it is electrically driven means no strain on engine. more power and lower fuel consumption. engine idle can be lower, example camry at only 600rpm. good for exhaust emission control.
3. there is no drive belt - no chance of the pwr strg failure because drive belt snapped at all. peace of mind

the EPS also can be tuned whether for performance or normal drive. for Corolla Altis, it is meant more towards normal drive and therefore the feel and weighing is designed to be that way. try change the standard 16" alloys to 17" like the one on Civic and with wider and heavier wheels/tyres i believe it will improve.

as for the prices, lets do some comparison

Corolla SEG AE111 (last model with twin airbag in year 2000) sold for 110K.

this Altis 1.6 which is bigger in all dimensions and better equipped/specs is selling at 105K. bear in mind for over a period of 10 years UMW has not increased the price of a Corolla 1.6 at all but rather, goes downwards. greedy?


#37
singtech

Posted 08 October 2010 - 08:00 PM

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IF EPS better that HPS, why a lot good car use HPS ? eg : New Camary, New Accord, New Lancer.....what is better compare the EPS or HPS ?


#38
ralf

Posted 09 October 2010 - 01:31 PM

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Hey, anybody notice that is the 10.5G Altis comes with torque converter ? ?

My car gear change behave very much like old tranny, rpm drops again before it revv up.

There can be only one .


#39
ralf

Posted 09 October 2010 - 01:35 PM

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QUOTE (altf2 @ Sep 30 2010, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Although I don't own this latest Dual VVTI version, but I still think that it's more worthwhile to pick the 1.8E with better fuel consumption, if you were already thinking about the 1.6E.

The price difference is only RM7000 and if spread to 5 year loan, maybe it's extra only RM100 plus per month for the instalment. I'm quite sure the benefit from the better fuel consumption may offset some of this extra instalments. Especially if you heavy travel.


Furthermore, the s-cvti is nice thing to play with, engine doesn't strain so much and revv always keep at lower range. smile_thumbup.gif
smile_tongue.gif

There can be only one .


#40
TheGunner

Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:57 PM

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QUOTE (ralf @ Oct 9 2010, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, anybody notice that is the 10.5G Altis comes with torque converter ? ?

My car gear change behave very much like old tranny, rpm drops again before it revv up.


Only the 1.6 comes with a torque converter auto. The 1.8 and 2.0 uses a CVT, but programmed to imitate the characteristics of a torque converter transmission.
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