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Coating Or No Coating?


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#31
ckl050877

Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

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In Penang? Have anyone tried the HM auto's Auto Magic (EVOMagic coating)?

#32
loweilun

Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:52 PM

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QUOTE (vr2turbo @ Aug 10 2013, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Polish- Wash, Clay, Polish

Seal - Coat, Sealant, Wax that is if you are coating, if not, sealant then wax.

What's the different between wax and polish ?

#33
jonlsl

Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:55 PM

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QUOTE (loweilun @ Aug 10 2013, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's the different between wax and polish ?


1. I will give you the proper explanation of what polish and wax is. Once you have understood, there will be many people which will use the word polish and wax in the worng instance. Even good quality detailing products use the terms wrongly! That is why its important to know what you are buying and ask the right questions.

2. Polish is where you use a product to "polish" the paint. In this step the polish can have abrasives in it. The purpose of the abrasive is 2 fold. 1st is to reduce or eliminate scratches, swirls and hairline marks on the clear coat. 2nd it also help to remove oxidation and cleans the surface/clear coat of any stubborn stains.

3. In a polish, the formulation may have or just by itself have only has chemical cleansers. Here the polish can have zero abrasives and only chemical cleansers to clean and shine the clear coat. Or some products have both abrasives and chemicals which cleans as well.

N.B. Polishing is where you make the car shiny!!! Most people think its the wax which makes the car shiny but its actually the polishing stage which makes the car shiny if done properly, wax only gives approximately 0-20% extra shine after polishing. If you have wet sanded a car properly and polished it perfectly, LSP will almost give next to nothing interms of extra shine. Best example I always give people. In an extreme case. A mirror provides the best shine and reflection. Does a wax make the reflection any better, NO!

4. Wax is where you put a protective layer over the clear coat (or paint) after you have polished the car as after polishing the paint you will have little to no protection (depending on the product used). The wax is what we call a Last Step Product (LSP), where it doesn't contain chemical cleaners or abrasives. Its sole purpose is to protect the paint or the polishing work that you have just done. Wax/LSP products comes in a variety of forms: Natural, synthetic or hybrid (mixture of both).

Now some manufacturers don't want to label their products accordingly and can be confusing for noobies.

Take Duragloss Total Performance Polish. The word polish is there but it actually is a Synthetic based LSP. sterb292.gif



#34
vr2turbo

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:27 AM

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QUOTE (jonlsl @ Aug 10 2013, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. I will give you the proper explanation of what polish and wax is. Once you have understood, there will be many people which will use the word polish and wax in the worng instance. Even good quality detailing products use the terms wrongly! That is why its important to know what you are buying and ask the right questions.

2. Polish is where you use a product to "polish" the paint. In this step the polish can have abrasives in it. The purpose of the abrasive is 2 fold. 1st is to reduce or eliminate scratches, swirls and hairline marks on the clear coat. 2nd it also help to remove oxidation and cleans the surface/clear coat of any stubborn stains.

3. In a polish, the formulation may have or just by itself have only has chemical cleansers. Here the polish can have zero abrasives and only chemical cleansers to clean and shine the clear coat. Or some products have both abrasives and chemicals which cleans as well.

N.B. Polishing is where you make the car shiny!!! Most people think its the wax which makes the car shiny but its actually the polishing stage which makes the car shiny if done properly, wax only gives approximately 0-20% extra shine after polishing. If you have wet sanded a car properly and polished it perfectly, LSP will almost give next to nothing interms of extra shine. Best example I always give people. In an extreme case. A mirror provides the best shine and reflection. Does a wax make the reflection any better, NO!

4. Wax is where you put a protective layer over the clear coat (or paint) after you have polished the car as after polishing the paint you will have little to no protection (depending on the product used). The wax is what we call a Last Step Product (LSP), where it doesn't contain chemical cleaners or abrasives. Its sole purpose is to protect the paint or the polishing work that you have just done. Wax/LSP products comes in a variety of forms: Natural, synthetic or hybrid (mixture of both).

Now some manufacturers don't want to label their products accordingly and can be confusing for noobies.

Take Duragloss Total Performance Polish. The word polish is there but it actually is a Synthetic based LSP. sterb292.gif

smile_thumbup.gif smile_thumbup.gif

When I first join AW detailing forum quite a number of years ago, I also had hard time understanding polishing and wax, then was introduce to words like cut, compound and so on...slowly learn and now understanding.... smile_wink.gif

#35
loweilun

Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:54 AM

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QUOTE (jonlsl @ Aug 10 2013, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. I will give you the proper explanation of what polish and wax is. Once you have understood, there will be many people which will use the word polish and wax in the worng instance. Even good quality detailing products use the terms wrongly! That is why its important to know what you are buying and ask the right questions.

2. Polish is where you use a product to "polish" the paint. In this step the polish can have abrasives in it. The purpose of the abrasive is 2 fold. 1st is to reduce or eliminate scratches, swirls and hairline marks on the clear coat. 2nd it also help to remove oxidation and cleans the surface/clear coat of any stubborn stains.

3. In a polish, the formulation may have or just by itself have only has chemical cleansers. Here the polish can have zero abrasives and only chemical cleansers to clean and shine the clear coat. Or some products have both abrasives and chemicals which cleans as well.

N.B. Polishing is where you make the car shiny!!! Most people think its the wax which makes the car shiny but its actually the polishing stage which makes the car shiny if done properly, wax only gives approximately 0-20% extra shine after polishing. If you have wet sanded a car properly and polished it perfectly, LSP will almost give next to nothing interms of extra shine. Best example I always give people. In an extreme case. A mirror provides the best shine and reflection. Does a wax make the reflection any better, NO!

4. Wax is where you put a protective layer over the clear coat (or paint) after you have polished the car as after polishing the paint you will have little to no protection (depending on the product used). The wax is what we call a Last Step Product (LSP), where it doesn't contain chemical cleaners or abrasives. Its sole purpose is to protect the paint or the polishing work that you have just done. Wax/LSP products comes in a variety of forms: Natural, synthetic or hybrid (mixture of both).

Now some manufacturers don't want to label their products accordingly and can be confusing for noobies.

Take Duragloss Total Performance Polish. The word polish is there but it actually is a Synthetic based LSP. sterb292.gif


Thanks Jonlsl, great explanation. =D
How to wet sanded a car properly?
which type of sand paper I should looking for ? =)

#36
g88

Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:00 AM

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QUOTE (loweilun @ Aug 12 2013, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Jonlsl, great explanation. =D
How to wet sanded a car properly?
which type of sand paper I should looking for ? =)


there is no return on wet sanding. I would not suggest you go for it at your current stage. Familiarize yourself with polisher first

#37
dodojuice

Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

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QUOTE (KrisMas @ Aug 9 2013, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most of the coatings I tried are actually more proned to hard watermarks (those that can't be removed by normal shampoo wash) as compared to traditional waxes/sealants. Maybe it's because those watermarks can be washed off together with the portion of the waxes/sealants on top. As the coatings are more 'permanent' in nature, they would need a harsher method to remove, i.e. chemically or mechanically. I've only found one coating that was able to withstand the chemical that I'm using to remove the watermarks, without compromising it's beading/sheeting properties. The others just can't take that sort of abuse.

If your concern is just watermarks, topping up a coating with waxes/sealant would be an option, but IMHO, it's a bit of a waste as:

1. Waxes/sealants on a good quality coating won't last a long as on bare paint so you'd need to top up more often than normal.
2. My experience in using spray wax/sealant is that they are even more prone to watermarks. Maybe the coating has some effect on it's bonding/strength.

Which comes to the question: why use a coating that is inferior to wax/sealant (strictly speaking in term of protection against watermarks only)?

Of course, a good quality coating does give that 'extra' layer of protection against harm to the cleat coat IF the wax/sealant failed, but it would negate the convenience of having the coating when we have to double the effort in protecting the coating itself. Not to mention spending the extra for the coating when we still need to spend the same amount (or maybe more) for the wax/sealant....

Hrrmmm...I'm not making any sense again, am I.....

Anyway, the only way to find out is to try it yourself la (though it would be quite an expensive task to do). One thing that is definite though, don't take the words/reviews of the 'mat salleh'. Our weather/environment here are far different from them and, most of the time they just don't work as good as they say. Also, careful with our local seller/dealer/distributor....well....you know how most of them do business...

OK...I'm just in one of those negative moods tonight, so just don't take my blabering too seriously la. Just one of 'those days'....hehehe


Hi KrisMas... Selamat Hari Raya!!

My take on watermarks on coated paintworks is partly due to the beading properties from the coating itself. And yes, most toppers also promote or enhances beading as well.

What if, a topper that changes that beading properties to a sheeting properties? In theory, it should eliminate or minimize any watermarks on a panel.



#38
KrisMas

Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

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QUOTE (dodojuice @ Aug 12 2013, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi KrisMas... Selamat Hari Raya!!

My take on watermarks on coated paintworks is partly due to the beading properties from the coating itself. And yes, most toppers also promote or enhances beading as well.

What if, a topper that changes that beading properties to a sheeting properties? In theory, it should eliminate or minimize any watermarks on a panel.

Well...my point is if the coating doesn't have the necessary properties to minimize the watermarks (or minimize any damages for that matter), and still requires 'normal topping up' just like applying waxes/sealants, then it just defeat the purpose of having it on (oher than providing another layer of harder-than-wax protection of the clear coat). If a coating would develope difficult-to-remove watermarks in, say a few months, that would be unnecessary expenditure on people like us here who can't afford to re-apply it regularly. Well....I guess we still need to wait until the a coating more suitable to our climate and environmental conditions is made available then. I heard that it's still 'under developement' ..... ph34r.gif

#39
vr2turbo

Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:50 PM

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QUOTE (loweilun @ Aug 12 2013, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Jonlsl, great explanation. =D
How to wet sanded a car properly?
which type of sand paper I should looking for ? =)

By hand is tough and not so accurate. A lot do by using random orbital..... smile_tongue.gif
Sandpaper also of 1500, 2000, 3000 grit, depending on the paintwork.....

#40
jonlsl

Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:51 PM

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QUOTE (loweilun @ Aug 12 2013, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Jonlsl, great explanation. =D
How to wet sanded a car properly?
which type of sand paper I should looking for ? =)


Bro, forget about wet sanding first and be good at learning how to polish properly first and know all products and tools of the trade inside out even before you attempt it as you will need the polishing skills to remove all sanding marks to get a flawless finish.

Just my 2 cents on wet sanded mirror finish cars. Yes its nice to have but not practical in the real world especially if its a daily driver. Its only good for weekend or toy cars. Its a pain to take care because the paint is so perfect. Moreover who the hell is going to admire your car when its a daily driver. People will only admire if its a weekend car where you bring it out with the "guys", car clubs, shows etc etc.

If you want to see a wet sanded car with mirror reflections have a look at my car in my blog.