[vediaz]

keylar..

you are right... wrong thread tonight... will delete my comment...

[vediaz]

reporst - deleted

[oilman]

I dont think older engines are much of concern. Its mainly the new
generation common rail (MB, BMW) or pump deusch (VM, Audi) ones that
maybe affected as these engines were designed with Euro3 standard fuel
onwards in mind. The stricter emmisions (and catalytic converters)
warrants low sulphur fuel so that the systems can performed as originally
intended. Higher sulphur would run down the systems. To circumvant this
however, advice is to change oil/fuel filter regularly, good quality full-
synthetic motor oil, using injector cleaners and blowing away mucks that
may clog the system with highway runs....In Malaysia, a recent fuel
survey which I posted (you check this on the thread titled accordingly),
you could see that most (bar one) company has sulphur levels which are
Euro 2 compliant (less than 500ppm). And common word suggest that the
best ones are Petronas and Esso/Mobil. I'm not sure if we can spot the
difference in quality from physical appearance alone. Maybe there are
experts who could shed light in this aspect?

[oilman]

FYI,

As you could see from the fuel quality survey (done by Petronas) I
posted, our Cetane numbers are quite impressive, ranges from 55-65+ which
betters some European countries. Sulphur levels are not that bad (except
one brand), but arent brilliant....but way within Euro 2 levels which is
acceptable at this time. Singapore (recently have Euro 3 levels) and
Thailand were at this level recently, so we're not that far left behind.

[Tourist]

I have always wondered. Does dirty & heavy fuel contains more energy then
those Light Sweet Crude and hence better fuel consumption?

[kaylcar]

hmm, only partly correct I believe, oilman.
Euro3 is a pollution standard, nothing else.
The question of whether or not the newer spec engines are damaged in any
way using older fuel specs is a complicated one, and probably based on
obsession rather than facts. There were some issues with the rubber seals
a while back, and many made incorrect claims that sulphur has lubricating
properties. The fact is that it doesn't.
High sulphur fuels (the ppm are infintesimally small) just pollute more,
and with the drive for lower emissions in Europe, we have Euro 3 engines.
(Only a few brands in Malaysia).
High sulphur fuels don't significantly increase acidity levels in your
engine oil, the EGR does more damage on that score, so you need to use
higher quality oils or reduce drain intervals.
If you are worried that much about pollution, don't drive.

[oilman]

Yes correct that Euro3 is a pollution standard. It is used normally to
refer to sulphur levels in diesel fuel (here 350ppm max) as well to the
emission control capability built into the emmision system of an engine
(so here they refer to Euro2/3/4 engines). I dont think the use of higher
sulphur will damage the newer engines per se, its more with the catalytic
converters that may get clogged up after sometime. Also typical advice in
manaufacturers manual would suggest if sulphur contents are higher than
recommended than its better to change oil at shorter intervals. In this
respect it would be better to use full synthetic oil (CF or better
grades) to err on the conservative side. Its also true there were some
instance earlier in time where the lost lubricating properties of sulphur
were damaging rubber seals but i believe this issue has been put to rest
with the use of additives to replace the lost lubricity.

[911]

The reduction in sulphur content is mainly a environmental reason.
Many have said our dirty diesel caused failure in newer common rail engine
(i.e. Merc Cdi engine).
What is the thing in our dirty diesel to cause this?

[oilman]

Hi 911,

I would be most interested in knowing what are the exact nature of the
failures, meaning which part of the engine that failed. I only have heard
at least from my experience of problems cropping in catalytic converters
getting clogged and needed replacement. I think there is a wide
misconception of failures here. I give you an example; if you follow UK
Benz forum threads, it is not uncommon for the turbo-chargers to
prematurely fail on the W211 E270 CDi and this is not attributed to fuel
quality (since UK are on Euro4 diesel) but rather design issues. I also
hear the same here with this group of cars in Malaysia, so it could be
that ppl attribute to this straight away to fuel quality which can be
misleading. I don't see a reason why our local fuel could
easily 'destroy' the engines unless of course the owner themselves do not
adhere to proper service schedules or are abusing thier cars for whatever
reason. We have also heard of contamination of fuel in many cases
(petrol/diesel) that could also harm the engine. A couple of things to
note which ppl may not realise but is good practice:

1) If you have accidently filled the diesel vehicle with petrol, then
make sure the engine is NOT turned on, otherwise the damage could be
instant and cost lots of RM!!!!

2) Never ever allow your diesel car run out of fuel at anytime

3) When starting the car in the morning (or from cold), let it idle for
about 30 seconds so that the turbo-charger is properly oiled. Likewise
particularly after a long or hard run, let it idle for about the same time
before turning off

[Tourist]

Also typical advice in manaufacturers manual would suggest if sulphur
contents are higher than recommended than its better to change oil at
shorter intervals. In this respect it would be better to use full synthetic
oil (CF or better grades) to err on the conservative side. Its also true
there were some instance earlier in time where the lost lubricating
properties of sulphur...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never heard of Fully Syn being better for fuel with high sulfur. Delo CXJ
15W40 has the highest Total Base Number of 15 that I could find and it is a
MINERAL. Yes, I would agree that it's better to change engine oil more
often with high sulfur fuel.

But neither have I heard Sulfur being responsible for any lubricating
properties of fuel. AFAIK, it's the process of removing sulfur from fuel
that other lubricating AROMATIC compounds were also being removed.