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Do You Heel 'n Toe?


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#1
armand7

Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:00 AM

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Do you practice heel 'n toe technique during downshifting? Not only it makes driving more fun & faster on mountain/hilly roads, when done properly it could also save your syncros from premature wear.

However I found it too hard to execute properly. Any sifu here got any tips on how to do it properly?

#2
vr2turbo

Posted 25 December 2011 - 07:21 PM

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QUOTE (armand7 @ Dec 25 2011, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you practice heel 'n toe technique during downshifting? Not only it makes driving more fun & faster on mountain/hilly roads, when done properly it could also save your syncros from premature wear.

However I found it too hard to execute properly. Any sifu here got any tips on how to do it properly?

I think need to go for classes for this. I am not into it, but I don't think we can explain over the forum too anyway.... smile_tongue.gif

#3
jacksonljs

Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:19 PM

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In 3-pedal manual cars, there are 2 types of advanced skills during shifting, 1 is double-clutching (be it upshift or downshift) and heel-and-toe (exclusively for downshifting, but the skills is almost similar to double-clutching). Double clutching is the process where before slotting into next gear (be it higher or lower gear), the throttle was blipped one time in order to match the engine speed and gearbox speed and after slotting into right gear and the clutch was released partially (about moving point), the throttle was blipped/hold again before the clutch released fully (accompanied light throttle when upshift and heavier throttle when downshift at the same time). Although car nowadays doesn't require double clutching due to synchromesh mechanism, it's highly recommended when shifting at high speed driving/high engine rpm (>3 ~ 3.5k rpm, or >2 ~ 2.5k rpm for diesel engine).

To execute heel and toe technique properly, 1st, familarize your car's clutch moving point position (usually about half-release before the vehicle started to move) and the km/h per 1000 rpm (rough figure) for each gear and also current travelling speed. But of course, it needs a lot of practice and patience (don't rush).

For example, the km/h per 1000 rpm for Myvi 1.0 is as follows (rough figure):
1st : 7 ~ 7.5 km/h, 2nd : 12.5 ~ 13 km/h, 3rd : 19 km/h, 4th : 26 km/h, 5th : 31.5 km/h

Let say, current vehicle travelling speed for Myvi 1.0 is about 60 km/h at 4th gear. To downshift into 3rd gear, to execute heel-and-toe properly, the throttle was blipped/hold to about 3k ~ 3.5k rpm as rough estimation to match the engine/gearbox speed with current vehicle speed (roughly at half-release clutch position) before releasing fully the clutch (but not too sudden as the car will jerk).

#4
vr2turbo

Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:32 PM

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Heel n toe is not controlling the accelerator and foot brakes including the clutch at the same time??

#5
jacksonljs

Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:38 PM

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QUOTE (vr2turbo @ Dec 25 2011, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Heel n toe is not controlling the accelerator and foot brakes including the clutch at the same time??


If the traffic situation doesn't required you to slow down, it's only involved controlling the accelerator and clutch pedal at the same time.

#6
rallychamp

Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:32 PM

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heel n toe only can be optimized during hard braking in racing condition (for me la...not sure for others)


a bit hard to do it during relaxed drive or normal cruise......

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#7
jacksonljs

Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:12 AM

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QUOTE (rallychamp @ Dec 25 2011, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
heel n toe only can be optimized during hard braking in racing condition (for me la...not sure for others)


a bit hard to do it during relaxed drive or normal cruise......


For relaxed/sedate drive and normal cruising, the power requirement is low.

Heel and toe is useful when power required is higher, eg overtaking, going uphill, hard acceleration, unless u drive a modern turbodiesel car where u can go uphill/overtaking with minimum need for downshift (coz it have exceptionally high torque at low rpm).

#8
Gunnerzz

Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:42 PM

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QUOTE (rallychamp @ Dec 25 2011, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
heel n toe only can be optimized during hard braking in racing condition (for me la...not sure for others)


a bit hard to do it during relaxed drive or normal cruise......

Agree with u on this.

Done this technique b4, very hard to master with different vehicle.
Its very2 helpful i u are going mad around twisty bend because if done properly;
1. U will always have enough power to pull out of the corner
2. Take the corner at speed u wont even thought possible.
3. Balance the weight transfer during corner makes cornering much2 faster and fun.

When u match the rev with the vehicle speed, u will notice that the car neither lurch forward or dips its nose.
It kept level and taking corner at crazy speed yet keeping poised is easy. Unlike when most people take corner, they brake which transfer the weight to the front. The front tyre can only take so much b4 they understeer. Never enter a corner while braking unless u know what are u doing.
Do this technique perfectly and u will feel u have something special smile_tongue.gif
Its all down to the timing of matching the rev and vehicle speed.

I stop doing it for now as now driving an auto,hahahaha.
Still i can go mad by using the right gear and play with the throttle.

How to master it?
Train, train and train.


#9
jacksonljs

Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:02 PM

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QUOTE (Gunnerzz @ Dec 26 2011, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agree with u on this.

Done this technique b4, very hard to master with different vehicle.
Its very2 helpful i u are going mad around twisty bend because if done properly;
1. U will always have enough power to pull out of the corner
2. Take the corner at speed u wont even thought possible.
3. Balance the weight transfer during corner makes cornering much2 faster and fun.

When u match the rev with the vehicle speed, u will notice that the car neither lurch forward or dips its nose.
It kept level and taking corner at crazy speed yet keeping poised is easy. Unlike when most people take corner, they brake which transfer the weight to the front. The front tyre can only take so much b4 they understeer. Never enter a corner while braking unless u know what are u doing.
Do this technique perfectly and u will feel u have something special smile_tongue.gif
Its all down to the timing of matching the rev and vehicle speed.

How to master it?
Train, train and train.


Another point is route and contour familiarisation. Just for example, if you regularly travel to Genting once or twice per month (let say) + good heel and toe skills, you can overtake many cars travelling uphill provided you downshifted early once seeing the corner before turning. A powerful cars is more towards advantage, but it doesn't mean a less powered car can't go uphill with normal speed. As for me, with good heel and toe technique (not to say perfect), good driving skills and judgement ability (especially when it comes to maintain car momentum) and timing (know when to brake and downshift once seeing a corner infront), my Myvi 1.0 with 2 ~ 3 persons onboard can overtake many bigger cars while going uphill, including those steep hairpin corners at Genting (not even half throttle applied, usually about 15 ~ 30% throttle).

#10
Gunnerzz

Posted 26 December 2011 - 07:58 PM

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One more important thing, no matter how good your car, tyre or suspension are please do remember there is another thing that is out of your control. Its mother nature.
Dont underestimate light rain as the surface can be very2 tricky esp downhill as what i discover on Bukit Putus.
The surface is super slick and i lock up too easily. Not to mention understeer at just 40kmh!!.

I was having a small laugh as i know i am to slow to hit the rock face but u should have seen my passenger's face.
Just make sure u know what there is to be know b4 u do something.