[vx55]

Yup, coatings with good hydrophobic qualities are fun to watch and admire, but there are higher chances of water spotting or even etching to occur.
On the flip side, coatings allows the user to use stronger cleaning wash to remove stubborn dirt without affecting the coating.
I hope to get some hydrophilic coatings to test but that will take a few more months before I get started!

[eohl79]

Wah... very informative discussion by sifus. To me, seeing water beads stay on the paint surface bothers me more than seeing a water bead on the paint after using OC2. If all the water sheets or beads rolled off then I am happy! Agree that coating does allow you to use a stronger and harsher cleaner but besides the beading, you know that people tend and like to feel the silkiness of a preped up surface with sealant and wax which is absent in current coatings. Did talk to the other detailing/coating sifu from down south. Liked the theory of the birdshit on paint on a hot/cool surface and same goes to the waterspots.

[jonlsl]

*photo adjusted to make the water spots more noticeable*

My theory is, since wax is not durable, the waterspots 'washes' away with the wax.

I also agree that wax gets washed away with the waterspots. That's why I use carnauba on top of OC2.0 and just apply it regularly for looks and extra durability to help prolong the coating and also looks good.

[eohl79]

If you ask me, I prefer the Colli looks... Not keen for the SiO2 looks on that paint color. Perhaps that SiO2 coat is not neutral but has a slight tinge of yellow or gray? Well it is just me...

[eohl79]

Bro fish, I read from somewhere that opti coat is SiC and not SiO2 coat. Ceramic vs glass coat. Not sure if opti guard vs OC2 is the same materials. Do you have a comparison of SiC coats?

[eohl79]

Anyone here have any idea on Duco Scratch - matrix micro coatings???

They do provide quite a bit of details on the coatings in the market and also took a jab on Opti coat which not many people has done before... See their FAQs. DIY kit not cheap but if it works may be worth it.

Paint Protection FAQs

Bro Shyan, what are your views on this stuff?

[jonlsl]

If you ask me, I prefer the Colli looks... Not keen for the SiO2 looks on that paint color. Perhaps that SiO2 coat is not neutral but has a slight tinge of yellow or gray? Well it is just me...

My previous SiO2 turned yellowish after sometime. Just like white car turn yellowish on some makes.

Anyone here have any idea on Duco Scratch - matrix micro coatings???

They do provide quite a bit of details on the coatings in the market and also took a jab on Opti coat which not many people has done before... See their FAQs. DIY kit not cheap but if it works may be worth it.

Paint Protection FAQs

Bro Shyan, what are your views on this stuff?

I thought someone already brought this product in? In Penang or something

They claim up to 7 years protection. But they didn't state whether after a one off application it will last up to 7 yrs or you have to keep topping it up. In any case in Australia its not hard to get protection for 7 years and the weather is vastly different from ours. Its so much cleaner there, so much dryer, the only thing they have intense there is the hot dry sun in summer.

When I was there my wife's white civic wasn't washed for 6months and the car still looks so clean. Unless you are living in the outback. We were living in the city and even in 6 months we don't have the stupid black streaks and horrendous black dust and acid rain which sticks on our coatings, sealants and waxes here. The only thing they really have to contend with over there is just 40C dry heat and sun.

I'm skeptical about their claims and would love to be proven wrong as I am also looking for the holy grail in paint protection. So anybody going to try?

I'll try to find what OC2.0 is made of. I thought I saw it somewhere being mentioned by Dr.G of Optimum. I try and find. Just because the guy said in his page its made of SiC doesn't mean he is right. People have said on the net that its acrylic based as well. Only Dr.G will know. There will be people who claim that its made of this and that, from my experience of making particular fuel additive, and seeing people try to "guess" what it is on the net when I read what people think my stuff is made out of and how it works really sometimes makes me laugh as they couldn't be any further from the truth and its entertaining for me.

UPDATE:

Went to the MMC website and it states "a ceramic like matrices" " the ceramic like polymer of Matrix Micro-Coatings"

"The Matrix Micro-Coatings solution consists of a family of non-silicone based resins"

This also sparked off a memory that OC2.0 might also be a resin based product, have to go back and find.

Found on an RX8 forum that a guy doing MMC locally was only giving 6months.

Found this in MMC website:
DISTRIBUTORS
Company : CGC Enterprise Sdn Bhd HTTP://WWW.CGCENTERPRISE.COM


Address : Penang International Sports Arena (PISA),
Ground Floor, Multi-Storey Car Park,

Jalan Tun Dr Awang,

11900 Bayan Lepas,
Penang, Malaysia
ANNOUNCEMENTS
COMPANY : CGC ENTERPRISE SDN BHD ADDRESS : PENANG INTERNATIONAL SPORTS ARENA (PISA), GROUND FLOOR, MULTI-STOREY CAR PARK, JALAN TUN DR AWANG, 11900 BAYAN LEPAS, PENANG, MALAYSIA. PHONE : ++604-6464564 / 6464328 FAX : ++604-6468751 EMAIL : SALES@CGCENTEPRI
Company : CGC Enterprise Sdn Bhd Address : Penang International Sports Arena (PISA), Ground Floor, Multi-Storey Car Park, Jalan Tun Dr Awang, 11900 Bayan Lepas, Penang, Malaysia. Phone : ++604-6464564 / 6464328 Fax : ++604-6468751 Email : sales@cgcenteprise.com...

This is what I have found so far in the net so you guys can make up your own decision.

UPDATE 2:

Dr.G's reply in blue:

Thanks for your reply Dr. G.

Sorry for the late reply. As Chris has pointed out, I was traveling and could not reply sooner. Chris has already addressed most of your questions and I will try to respond to the rest today. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

As stated earlier I have noticed no change. Could you please explain how a resin continues to self level after it is already dry to touch?

The solvents flash off for the most part within the first minute (could take 5 seconds to 30 seconds depending on the temps). As the resin starts to cure (within 10 minutes for V1 and 60 minutes for V2), it becomes dry on the surface hence the term "dry to the touch". The curing is fastest on the surface and slower below the surface since moisture has to travel within the polymer to reach the active sites. Over a period of a few days, the residual solvents will completely evaporate and the polymer also becomes fully cured.

From another thread:


Opti-Coat is not a nano particle; it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds. The application of Opti-Coat takes less than 10 minutes for a full size car, if it is done correctly. It applies just like Opti-Seal; however, if there is over application, you have to remove the excess within the first 10 minutes (just leveling with the applicator-CT). Otherwise, once it cures, you have to buff off the excess (machine polishing-CT). Most people apply this product to one panel at a time and check for any unevenness before moving to the next section. As far as the durability, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down; however, you can polish it over time! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat.

Opti-Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.
The coating will get to a hardness of 9H after it is fully cured. The solvents used in Opti-Coat are also used in hand lotions and other cosmetic products. The polymers, however, are very reactive and should be used with caution and that is one of the reasons we only offer it to professional detailers] Dr. G of Optimum Polymer Technologies.

Opti-Coat 2.0 Questions for an article - Optimum Forum answered by Dr.G

9.-What temperatures will cured Opti-Coat 2.0 withstand before failing?

Opti-Coat 2.0 forms ceramic bonds (Si-C)at very high temperatures and will not be damaged by extreme heat. Therefore, it can be used to protect wheels, brake calipers, engine compartments without any issues.

[fishbonez]

Yeah, exactly! Not only no water beading = pariah product, a good number of consumers are also brainwashed that strong water beading = protection. So what if the surface is beading water for months but after stripping off the wax, it has full of waterspot.. I think end of the day, practically the best way to determine protection is by visual and claying.

Apart from 'aged' wax dying, some 'aged' wax really attract all sorts of nonsense despite being durable, e.g swissvax. Perhaps it is our climate, when neglected for weeks, it can really cling on unnoticeable dirt despite it being exceptionally durable. Preping back the surface as compared to one with coating is a pita. Many times, not even a IPA wipe down can remove the clinged on dirt.

Can't agree more on consumers being brainwashed. But still new to the idea of 'aged' wax, need to try some swissvax to find out, which particular wax are you referring to bro? Onyx?

If you ask me, I prefer the Colli looks... Not keen for the SiO2 looks on that paint color. Perhaps that SiO2 coat is not neutral but has a slight tinge of yellow or gray? Well it is just me...

Colli darkens the paint when applied and until after 2-4 washes, the darkness will be gone. This is typical of waxes/sealants but the way the coating looks on the paint will remain there for a pretty long time. In the photo I posted it is actually Cquartz, one of the more 'darkening' coatings, the others like Gtechniq C1 or OptiCoat does not darken that much.

Bro fish, I read from somewhere that opti coat is SiC and not SiO2 coat. Ceramic vs glass coat. Not sure if opti guard vs OC2 is the same materials. Do you have a comparison of SiC coats?

Ahh, never knew that opti coat is SiC, have always assumed that they were all similar, therefore, no comparison of SiC coats.

My previous SiO2 turned yellowish after sometime. Just like white car turn yellowish on some makes.




I thought someone already brought this product in? In Penang or something

They claim up to 7 years protection. But they didn't state whether after a one off application it will last up to 7 yrs or you have to keep topping it up. In any case in Australia its not hard to get protection for 7 years and the weather is vastly different from ours. Its so much cleaner there, so much dryer, the only thing they have intense there is the hot dry sun in summer.

When I was there my wife's white civic wasn't washed for 6months and the car still looks so clean. Unless you are living in the outback. We were living in the city and even in 6 months we don't have the stupid black streaks and horrendous black dust and acid rain which sticks on our coatings, sealants and waxes here. The only thing they really have to contend with over there is just 40C dry heat and sun.

I'm skeptical about their claims and would love to be proven wrong as I am also looking for the holy grail in paint protection. So anybody going to try?

I'll try to find what OC2.0 is made of. I thought I saw it somewhere being mentioned by Dr.G of Optimum. I try and find. Just because the guy said in his page its made of SiC doesn't mean he is right. People have said on the net that its acrylic based as well. Only Dr.G will know. There will be people who claim that its made of this and that, from my experience of making particular fuel additive, and seeing people try to "guess" what it is on the net when I read what people think my stuff is made out of and how it works really sometimes makes me laugh as they couldn't be any further from the truth and its entertaining for me.

UPDATE:

Went to the MMC website and it states "a ceramic like matrices" " the ceramic like polymer of Matrix Micro-Coatings"

"The Matrix Micro-Coatings solution consists of a family of non-silicone based resins"

This also sparked off a memory that OC2.0 might also be a resin based product, have to go back and find.

Found on an RX8 forum that a guy doing MMC locally was only giving 6months.

Found this in MMC website:
DISTRIBUTORS
Company : CGC Enterprise Sdn Bhd HTTP://WWW.CGCENTERPRISE.COM


Address : Penang International Sports Arena (PISA),
Ground Floor, Multi-Storey Car Park,

Jalan Tun Dr Awang,

11900 Bayan Lepas,
Penang, Malaysia
ANNOUNCEMENTS
COMPANY : CGC ENTERPRISE SDN BHD ADDRESS : PENANG INTERNATIONAL SPORTS ARENA (PISA), GROUND FLOOR, MULTI-STOREY CAR PARK, JALAN TUN DR AWANG, 11900 BAYAN LEPAS, PENANG, MALAYSIA. PHONE : ++604-6464564 / 6464328 FAX : ++604-6468751 EMAIL : SALES@CGCENTEPRI
Company : CGC Enterprise Sdn Bhd Address : Penang International Sports Arena (PISA), Ground Floor, Multi-Storey Car Park, Jalan Tun Dr Awang, 11900 Bayan Lepas, Penang, Malaysia. Phone : ++604-6464564 / 6464328 Fax : ++604-6468751 Email : sales@cgcenteprise.com...

This is what I have found so far in the net so you guys can make up your own decision.

UPDATE 2:

Dr.G's reply in blue:

Thanks for your reply Dr. G.

Sorry for the late reply. As Chris has pointed out, I was traveling and could not reply sooner. Chris has already addressed most of your questions and I will try to respond to the rest today. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

As stated earlier I have noticed no change. Could you please explain how a resin continues to self level after it is already dry to touch?

The solvents flash off for the most part within the first minute (could take 5 seconds to 30 seconds depending on the temps). As the resin starts to cure (within 10 minutes for V1 and 60 minutes for V2), it becomes dry on the surface hence the term "dry to the touch". The curing is fastest on the surface and slower below the surface since moisture has to travel within the polymer to reach the active sites. Over a period of a few days, the residual solvents will completely evaporate and the polymer also becomes fully cured.

From another thread:


Opti-Coat is not a nano particle; it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds. The application of Opti-Coat takes less than 10 minutes for a full size car, if it is done correctly. It applies just like Opti-Seal; however, if there is over application, you have to remove the excess within the first 10 minutes (just leveling with the applicator-CT). Otherwise, once it cures, you have to buff off the excess (machine polishing-CT). Most people apply this product to one panel at a time and check for any unevenness before moving to the next section. As far as the durability, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down; however, you can polish it over time! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat.

Opti-Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.
The coating will get to a hardness of 9H after it is fully cured. The solvents used in Opti-Coat are also used in hand lotions and other cosmetic products. The polymers, however, are very reactive and should be used with caution and that is one of the reasons we only offer it to professional detailers] Dr. G of Optimum Polymer Technologies.

Opti-Coat 2.0 Questions for an article - Optimum Forum answered by Dr.G

9.-What temperatures will cured Opti-Coat 2.0 withstand before failing?

Opti-Coat 2.0 forms ceramic bonds (Si-C)at very high temperatures and will not be damaged by extreme heat. Therefore, it can be used to protect wheels, brake calipers, engine compartments without any issues.

MMC is old stuff, so can consider old tech also? hehehe, nvr bothered trying it out. Agree with the point that many companies claim wonders for their products. Especially coating manufacturers that claim the level of hardness their coating are. A claim is just a claim, unless they do show an official test certificate. I have read some coatings that claim to have a level of 12H hardness when the maximum is only 10H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness). *facepalm*

9H hardness is very hard and that is the hardness level that is claimed to be achieved by Gzox Hi-MOHS coat, which the local centres are doing for a whopping RM5,000. If opti-coat really does achieve that kinda hardness, it's a bargain! But we will never know for ourselves unless we do a pencil hardness test.

IMHO, all comes down to practicality, in the end, they are all gonna kena waterspotting, which you will have to remove using a method that will weaken the coating a little bit. So troublesome, just get some spray wax and use after every 2 washes and you are good to go. LOL, that's just my 2 cents opinion now, may change next time when another discovery happens. PEACE

[jonlsl]

Can't agree more on consumers being brainwashed. But still new to the idea of 'aged' wax, need to try some swissvax to find out, which particular wax are you referring to bro? Onyx?



Colli darkens the paint when applied and until after 2-4 washes, the darkness will be gone. This is typical of waxes/sealants but the way the coating looks on the paint will remain there for a pretty long time. In the photo I posted it is actually Cquartz, one of the more 'darkening' coatings, the others like Gtechniq C1 or OptiCoat does not darken that much.



Ahh, never knew that opti coat is SiC, have always assumed that they were all similar, therefore, no comparison of SiC coats.



MMC is old stuff, so can consider old tech also? hehehe, nvr bothered trying it out. Agree with the point that many companies claim wonders for their products. Especially coating manufacturers that claim the level of hardness their coating are. A claim is just a claim, unless they do show an official test certificate. I have read some coatings that claim to have a level of 12H hardness when the maximum is only 10H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness). *facepalm*

9H hardness is very hard and that is the hardness level that is claimed to be achieved by Gzox Hi-MOHS coat, which the local centres are doing for a whopping RM5,000. If opti-coat really does achieve that kinda hardness, it's a bargain! But we will never know for ourselves unless we do a pencil hardness test.

IMHO, all comes down to practicality, in the end, they are all gonna kena waterspotting, which you will have to remove using a method that will weaken the coating a little bit. So troublesome, just get some spray wax and use after every 2 washes and you are good to go. LOL, that's just my 2 cents opinion now, may change next time when another discovery happens. PEACE

I also tend to not believe the pencil hardness that they claim. OC 2.0 9H, I don't think so but the other benefits if the coating are good. Same with pompanazzi 880X queartx coating claim 9-10H also used it and don't really believe. But it also doesn't really bother me as coating hardness is lower down on my list of priorities.

[jonlsl]

Bro, some people BS around the web with all the super cleaning abilities of opti-coat, super hardness, chemical resistance, etc . First of all, what you see in the video is it really tar or just dirt stains? If you have got a good sealant or wax on your paint, you can do the same also. You want to test opti-coat with tar, ask those person come over my place and I apply a gunk of tar from my bitumen tin for house roof top and see if they can remove that . Take it with a big pinch of salt as those people are selling those products and services. That's why I like independent reviews.

This is what I think, you get confirmed good release properties with bugs from OC2.0, it is sooo easy to wash bugs away with OC2.0, just regular shampoo will do. Black stain resistance is the same, didn't see much difference. Beading is okay, durability I would say very good and chemical resistance is also good. It can even stand quite afew AIO polishes provided its very low abrsive AIO or non abrasive based AIO but chemical based like DG501, Klasse AIO etc. Water marks is the same with any coating you will still get it. Only consolation is that you can easily apply AIO to clean the coating and not really affect it. Hardness and scratch resistance is like nothing much harder than your normal CC. OC tar resistance is just like normal wax/sealant nothing much better. If left on there long enough you would have to use something strong to get it off just like normal. Look is only very slightly better on an well preped car. It add only about 5-10% more shine on a well preped car.

So where is the advantage of OC2.0? Only real advantage I see is in:

1. Bug release properties
2. Durability
3. Good durability against strong cleaners.

So here is the point with OC. If you get water mark, tar, black stain etc on the car just use a good chemical based AIO and usually it will solve all the stated problems. As long you use a non abrasive cleaner the coating will be durable. So with regular sealant/wax or other coatings. After paint cleaning/AIO you would have to reapply the your LSP. Well with OC you don't need that extra last step as OC is still there.

So don't be fooled into thinking that OC 2.0 is a wonder product, it is a good product you just have to know how to use it to get the best out of it and PREP work and application is very important for lasting durability. So if you want to eliminate the use of LSP just OC2.0 your car and use a non abrasive chemical based AIO just for maintenance.

If you are one of those looking for non water marking, non black staining, non bird poo etching. Sorry to say there is no coating that will offer you that. The only way to reduce that is to use a very good and durable coating (there are a few around from US, Taiwan, Korea Japan etc.) together with regular washing and you MUST use a topper like QD or carnauba wax as this will be the sacrificial layer that will the etched in by the bird poo and water mark, and any calcium deposits etc will be washed away with your next car wash leaving the coating unaffect or very slightly affect and may need some AIO.