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Disappointed After Spending 4k In Soundproofing


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#111
siv75

Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

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Well, if one wants to go post in a forum, be prepared to hear what others might think of the topic and posts put forward. If one just wants to publicise something and do not care what others may have in terms of opinions, then go to a bulletin board and advertise. Good to hear you learnt something and want to share - assume some would see value in it while others won't.

Bmkia's posts seem to attack Desmond in a very personal way ... whatever objectivity that was there originally is now completely amiss. Having said that, he has his right to ramble. Its a forum where all kinds of jokers are treated as equals. I'm a joker myself as far as all readers care to imagine.

Hey! anyone wants to preach rambling off as wisdom - this is the right place to do so. smile_clown.gif

#112
siv75

Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:04 AM

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QUOTE (bmkia @ Aug 27 2012, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, so many replies (also noticed lots of support for KL Auto and their works). Some post even the same day they register as members here and some copy paste old "happy" stories also. Not so sure what is the relevance when I am very specific on my issues and queries here that went unanswered. Well, it looks like an open forum, anyone can post their thoughts here (related or otherwise).

To clear the air as I can see some people are already praising that KL Auto is so generous with a refund and why I am not accepting it, this "refund" is not so simple as returning a product and getting a refund. Here is some reasons why:-

1) I am not letting KL Auto strip open my boot / back seat again to strip all the materials out. What if the job is not done properly (maliciously or otherwise) and later loose parts sounds etc? For someone like me who already spend almost RM7K on soundproofing, why in the world I would want to risk my current ride which I am happy with to have loose sounds etc for the RM2K refund?

2) On the scraping of of the Quietdrive on 4 wheel fenders? Again, I am not comfortable with the 2 KL Auto foreign workers who most likely be assigned to remove the plastic cover of my fenders (they were the ones who applied the Quietdrive in the 1st place) / wheel arches and scraping the metal parts as well as the plastic fenders. So many things can go wrong here... I leave it to your imagination....

3) Also, Dynamat Extreme as well as other insulation materials have been installed on some of the parts mentioned above. I really dont see how one can be stripped/ scrapped/ washed with chemicals without damaging/ jeopardizing the other part.

Again, I would like to highlight that in the end, this is not "Installer A is better than Installer B" story. Of course the soundproofing of your ride will most probably be great or satisfactory when you tell Installer A your budget is upwards of RM8K or you are eventually "poisoned" by the same Installer to spend that kind of $$$ to fully soundproof your car (whether in 1 go or few stages).

In my case, whether you call it a "communication" or "perception/ expectation" problem, what happens when you are misled ("perception/ expectation") that spending RM3.2K will improve your car's ride road noise substantially (at least 30%) with so and so "recommended" treatment based on experience of a R&D team to boot. I can think of 4 solutions here:-

1) Go back for re-tweaks and waste your time (At the mercy of installers free time/schedule/stock. If installer " tidak apa attitude"... you are screwed and end up waiting as in my case)

2) During re-tweaks, perhaps get more "poisoned" to spend more/ get upgrades (in the end spending RM6K - RM10K).. and most will be happy with the results after spending that much money. (Hmmmn... a good follow up marketing strategy here)

3) Brush it off saying its a matter of difference in "perception/ expectation" followed by a challenge for a shootout.

4) Refund but subject to "Hey, come over and let my boys strip/ scrap/ chemically wash your car over again. We "promise" to do a real "fine" job, the 3rd time round since you gave us a negative feedback.

Theoretically, say your mistress is unhappy with her surgeon on her new boobjob, not "firm" enough as advertised is her complain. You think she will agree to go under the knife by the same surgeon to get a refund subject to the silicone implants being removed?



What a load of rubbish! Sorry, I'm not buying this BS. You can always go to another installer and ask them to remove the SP. OR you can remove it yourself. SP materials can be removed without causing issues to the chassis. The side with the adhesive would leave a trace of itself but that should be ok as 1) it is in the interior where it is not visible; 2) you can easily get something else installed in its place at a merchant of your choice.

I have done and redone SP a few times and there's no such thing as damage, especially if you are replacing solution 1 with solution 2.

Remove the SP, show Desmond that its off, get your refund. It's not like Desmond can use the material you rip off - that's destroyed anyways. Then take the refund to another shop of your choice and redo with them.

If you do not do this, then clearly you feel his work is of good quality ... and you're only interested in defaming him for whatever subjective reason you have.





#113
stalin

Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:53 AM

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QUOTE (siv75 @ Sep 3 2012, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a load of rubbish! Sorry, I'm not buying this BS. You can always go to another installer and ask them to remove the SP. OR you can remove it yourself. SP materials can be removed without causing issues to the chassis. The side with the adhesive would leave a trace of itself but that should be ok as 1) it is in the interior where it is not visible; 2) you can easily get something else installed in its place at a merchant of your choice.

I have done and redone SP a few times and there's no such thing as damage, especially if you are replacing solution 1 with solution 2.

Remove the SP, show Desmond that its off, get your refund. It's not like Desmond can use the material you rip off - that's destroyed anyways. Then take the refund to another shop of your choice and redo with them.

If you do not do this, then clearly you feel his work is of good quality ... and you're only interested in defaming him for whatever subjective reason you have.


It's not surprising at all as this is an open forum. Competitors can always send in their cybertroops to spoil one's business. Now, I don't even know what is real and what is not. Look at the automotive threads and you will understand what I meant.

#114
banker

Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:19 PM

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after reading the thread, 1 question keep popping up....
Desmond offered a refund... but how come our friend not taking it?

I have been a customer of Desmond since my Satria days and up to now driving a conti I still favour his services.
Ppl who knows me will attest that I am damn careful with how I spend my money...

what I get from Desmond is a no bullshit outright solution to MY requirements.... let me emphasize... MY REQUIREMENTS.... he will listen, argue, critise at the same time provide a solution to fit my requirement.... what I like about him is that he will tune and tune and tune until I am satisfied (albeit alot of visits to his shop)... which installer would do this for you for free?? most will just give you a "one size fits all" solution based on the car that you drive and not what you actually wanted, and when you are not satisfied, need to add this, add that and with additional costs.
on the other side of the coin, there are alot of ppl who are not sure about what they wanted/requirement, learning from the postings of public forums/frens heresay, and from there deducting what works without knowing what is the problem they wanted to solve... comments like... "I read from XX forum and you transform the ride into whathaveyoukinda quiet, I oso want the same", without knowing what was tweaked..... left side roar is louder ka, right side drone ka, too pressurised ka... etc. etc.
even for me, always looking for the best bang for buck, will also discuss with Desmond after each install what is my concern until I am satisfied....
remember... SP is a funny animal... what works for you might not work for others.....

do I sound like I am vouching for Desmond and his boys? Damn right.....
but then... its only MY OPINION.....
do I work for KL Auto? Hell no... they work for me.... smile_approve.gif
Be who you are and say what you feel: because those who mind don't matter and those who matter won't mind

#115
simoniz

Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:19 PM

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"Banker" sure 100% careful with their $$$ wan le... smile_thumbup.gif

As for me, I am not bother with SP. Migrating from a Truck with MT tyres for 10years to a conti saloon car is already a big improvement as it is in terms of comfort and quietness.

What bothers me is the saloon chassis, it feels like flimsy. What do you expect, it is not a truck.

Read a lot about KL Auto, the praises and not so happy customer. Finally take the plunge and sent in my one month old saloon to KL Auto. Before doing anything, Desmond explain in details of their product and services and of cause costing.

Still not 100% convince but decided to give it a try. Did the Autofoam Comfort package which do not involve any dismantling or disturb the cabin as I want to see for myself how they work and their finishing.

2 hours later, I am a very satisfied customer.. did they rest of the autofoaming within the next 3 months. I think it is normal when customising/tailoring to ones need, high chances need to go back for re-tweaking. With KL-Auto, it is free till satisfied. smile_approve.gif

Still have 1 last foaming to go. Will soon find time.

Now my saloon feels more tough and more rigid.. not exactly like my truck by close. As what Banker have said. Know your requirement! After pay $$$, meets your requirement, I say, Job Well done smile_thumbup.gif

I have say it before and I will say it again. Everybody have the rights to shout of their unhappiness and un-satisfaction here in AW Forum or any other Forum. What's the point? It will not solve your problem.. For me, I would just go back there and work out a solution.. $$$ already been paid. Get them to work harder for your $$$.

Well, this is only my personal opinion and the way I would handle things. Face2Face.

I am just satified customer of KL Auto who had spend a substantial amount of $$ and have no ties with Kl Auto what so ever.. Heck I don't even get any loyalty discount...

Hopes everything works out well for you and Peace. smile_wink.gif







#116
AC19

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

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One member in other forum cannot feel the different or improvement on NVH and the "debate" went on with comparison with another car makers, other SP suppliers, compared SP products and suddenly all amateurish turn professional with bare hear-say and few pointers and facts from here and there.

Gentlemen, before we get on to the psychological placebo effect as some prefer some peace of mind that comes with believing we have invested the absolute best SP we can possibly get or for that one would believe in magic as what SP could have done like some magical mystery potion we can buy to help us lose weight, grow hair etc., we just want it to be true so badly that we can't help ourselves.

Perhaps the better option for amateurish to get over with it is the use of sound meter proof on dB reading. That being said, whether they were tested with same type of tyres, road, running speed, wind-speed, weight in the car and other subjective conditions. Even same model with different tyres and/or air-pressure gave different results. Roughly, these are some dB references:
180dB - space shuttle lift-off
130 dB - Jet engine at 100ft
120 dB - Threshold of pai, Thenderclap
110 db - Rock music, screaming child
100 dB - subway train, blow dryer
90 dB - factory machinery at 3ft
80 dB - busy street, alarm clock
70 dB - Busy traffic, phone ringtone
60 dB - normal conversation at 3ft
50 dB - quiet office, quiet street
40 dB - quiet residential area, park
30 dB - quiet whisper at 3ft, library
20 dB - rusting leaves, ticking watch

My office is averagely 33 dB when no one with me (then again, your office could be 32 dB) and as I type on the keyboard when writing this with my 2 fingers, it's around 55-64 dB, when I cough midly is around 81 dB. Depending on what stereo set you have in the car, increasing the volume a bit might well override several dB that one is complaining.

Recalled a video on an American forum after autoforming (well using different material available here) with the engine idling (again subjective as to when; morning start up or after run-in or after long distance or sprinted to the accessories shop for automing) around 60ish dB (on an American Accord) and the average result improved only 1 dB. For that sort of "noise" reduction, we cannot differentiate but our wallet could (usually, for the case of unhappy customers). Even for a continuous steady wave-band at similar rate, we can't even differentiate 10 dB unless we gifted child.

Gentlemen, peace!

#117
vr2turbo

Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

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QUOTE (simoniz @ Sep 4 2012, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Banker" sure 100% careful with their $$$ wan le... smile_thumbup.gif

No wonder his id is "banker"

True lah, brother. The forum for you to discuss, whether for or against, but keep it peaceful.
Try to find a solution as a win, win situation is always the best.
Have seen in other forum, one member complaint also, quite similarly mentioned that no answer from seller, but after posting, seller relied once only then went silence. Contact number given, but no reply from calls and sms...... smile_blackeye.gif

Desmond has offered to tune and have gone to the extent to refund, so it is up to bro. bmkia

#118
AC19

Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

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QUOTE (vr2turbo @ Sep 4 2012, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Desmond has offered to tune and have gone to the extent to refund, so it is up to bro. bmkia


to be fair (not in universal vocab) to bro bmkia, he spent over MYR7K after 2-3 different visits (did I get it right) and consequently the REFUND was offered at MYR2K provided that they will have to remove those SP material.

It depends which angle you look at:
1) The perception created was his car being experimented after MYR7K and REFUND of MYR2K plus removal of SP material may risk his car being subjected to left over residual, and risks of removal and remounted car parts. So, unfair lor.
2) The perception implied that he is not willing to risk his car for further tweaking which cost him both time and more money as he was led into MYR7K already - So, unfair lor
3) All others are happy with what they do on SP and it implies that his was purely sour-grape or suspected Desmond's competitor or cybertroop paid customer - So, not fair to ramble here lor
4) Desmond did offered REFUND (MYR2K) so should take it and move on. So, not fair to BS here lor

It seems he had regretted with the decision doing SP that is not meeting his "requirements" (cast alot of doubts what were those or just that he is another picky customer and difficult to satisfy) so his frustration was not well accepted since many customers (as it appeared) are happy and think he is just nuts.

In the nutshell, it was perceived as personal attack to Desmond and not matter how harmless it appears to him, he had made his point about the complaint. Happy customers will continued to "defend" Desmond while unhappy customers had to accept what is being done cannot be un-do since initial decision agreeing to such transaction rested squarely on him. If they persist, then go to consumer tribunal. customers to be, can take a pinch of salt..... peace

#119
dchong

Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

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AC19,

Thank you for your comments here. I would like to clarify and correct a few points,

Bmkia spent a Grand total of 3.2k at KL Auto, and came back only Once for AutoFOAM inspection and clean-up after a few days.

Rm 3200 was for,
a) Rm 1180 for AutoFOAM solutions for the Undercarriage, engine frames and A pillars .
He has confirmed his Satisfiaction and Happy with the improvements to his Ride Comfort and handling here.

cool.gif Rm 2020 for "Soundproofing" solutions on a Japanese car, well known worldwide for Tire and Road noise. http://www.mazda3clu...ead.php?t=56510

Areas treated include 1) Wheel arc coating with QuietDrive ( US) with Premium mat, 2) BUTT package for rear section of car incl. boot floor and wheel arches 3) Boot lid.

I also adviced at that time to treat,
1) the Doors. He declined / postponed for lack of budget at that time or the bill got too big smile_tongue.gif .
2) 3M Roar Buster for High Frequency tire noise and wait for the appropriate Water-Proofed version which was unfortunately out of stock then.

He subsequently treated the Omitted area ie. the Doors and other areas Elsewhere.
From the math, he spent an extra Rm 3.5K ++ on "soundproofing" alone at the Other shop.

From his words here, he is refusing to ackowledge our contribution to his ride's improvements and wants a Refund..
For a amicable and Happy ending, my offer to refund exactly Rm 2020 and remove our solutions, i think is Fair and Reasonable.

Cheers,

Desmond aka Passionate Idiot
KL AUTO
KL Auto Accessories Sdn. Bhd.
No: 66, Jalan Dato Haji Eusoff, Kompleks Damai
Off Jalan Ipoh, 50400 Kuala Lumpur
Tel: 603-4042 9928 / 603-4044 9928
H/P No: 017-282 3073 (Desmond Chong)
http://www.autofoam.com.my/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Autofoam/193456474019263

#120
dchong

Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

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To our "Fan-Club" ,

It is guys like you that Inspires us to Work our Butts off and offer the BEST solutions and After Sales service in our industry.
Thank you for past, present and future support.

Cheers,

Desmond aka Passionate Idiot
KL AUTO
facebook /Autofoam.
KL Auto Accessories Sdn. Bhd.
No: 66, Jalan Dato Haji Eusoff, Kompleks Damai
Off Jalan Ipoh, 50400 Kuala Lumpur
Tel: 603-4042 9928 / 603-4044 9928
H/P No: 017-282 3073 (Desmond Chong)
http://www.autofoam.com.my/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Autofoam/193456474019263