Disappointed After Spending 4k In Soundproofing

Sound is not an easy issue to make everyone happy, so for me listen to radio or player to cover up. if ice kakis then different lor... I suggest get the best hifi sets & enjoy in a sound proof room at home is the best? just my 2 cts.

The issue at hand is not about ICE or sound quality of the stereo, etc. Its about the tyre / wind and other road noise.

How I handle it is by turning up the radio. However, when I bring my family out, I can't do that and my son always ask me

'what sound is that' when he hears the tyre roar.

Also, sometimes, I just prefer to drive without the radio on and what a quiet drive. So, still doing my research before I take the plunge.

We don't know who is right or wrong as this is a discussion.
bmkia have his right, if he is is not happy with the products in his car.
But then again due to communication problem this apparently was not solved.
Since now Desmond have answered and willing to have a comparison done, and even a full refund if the results are not favorable, just meet up and resolve the matter.....

Hi Desmond,

LOL....what "angst" and "sarcasm"? That is just your "perception". Are you referring "angst" to my questions which went unanswered and "sarcasm" when I highlighted certain points in a "fun" poking way.

Anyways, your suggestion of calling you to say "hey idiot, i am not happy with your work. How ???" was already attempted when I called you weeks ago to say Im not happy/ satisfied with the results albeit not using rude words like "idiot" and your answer is to wait for the "3M Roar Buster".

If you still can't figure out why I am "publicise this all over the world. For whatever reasons ????" here is 4 main clear reasons for you or anyone reading this:-

1) To [b]create an awareness that your product/ services may not be as good as you claim[/b] (at least in my case and god knows how many more out there being typical Malaysians who would just live with it and keep quiet) KHAWWM went back to your place at least 3x, we leave that for him to reply whether your product/ services meets his "expectations")

2) There is no definate way to measure the performance of your products / services. In the end its boils down to the user/ customers "perception" and "expectation". Any unsatisfaction will be at the mercy of the vendor/ installer to acknowledge the gap and improve it. RM3K may be pocket change to some people, but to poor people people like me still using "Dynamat Extreme" (btw its not bitumen and tar but elastomeric butyl) from the heydays as you implied, its still a lot money....
http://www.optiseal....tylvbitumen.php

3) There are alternatives out there(products and installers). Again, I am reiterating that product/ services superiority is subjective. I am here to highlight the different products, costs, methods and ...call it "subjective" results/ reviews achieved.

4) The level of your customer service and what can be expected. Hey, I finally got you to admit and say a "thousand apologies" for leaving me hanging and waiting for your call for weeks. If this happened to me, I bet it happens to other "unsatisfied" customers, present and future. Well at least now any present and future of customers of yours reading this now will notice how you suddenly start " bending over to resolve my case"... ONCE A NEGATIVE FEEDBACK IS POSTED.

Hi cute_boboi,

Very good suggestion indeed. I am using an android based phone and downloaded DB Noise Meter. Is this software good enough and please share if you know of a better one. If KHAWWM is agreeable, we can use the same software and phone to test and we will post the results together with both our subjective reviews and observations during the test ride. Also, its good if we can do the comparison (subject to KHAWWM's availabilty) sometime this Sunday at KK Lau instead. There are bad patches of road around there as well and we can access NPE for the highway test (high speed) comparison.

BTW, I am not comfortable with the terms and conditions of the refund which involves KL AUTo stripping my car again and scraping my car to remove the QuietDrive applied. Since I cannot meet KL Auto's T&C, I will forfeit my refund. However, the comparison with KHAWWM's car should still be done for sharing and to satisfy my curiousity (KHAWWM and other readers here as well).

I propose this Sunday at KK Lau (no free lunch at KK Lau, I am not even going to inform KK Lau until we are there to surprise him but I dont mind buying KHAWWM and Adrian lunch..lol) instead if KHAWWM is available. After this I will not be available until end of September to do this comparison as I will be away and overseas. And if you are wondering why I am not agreeable to do a comparison at KL Auto, I dont see a point of getting Desmond (or KK Lau) involved. It should be between three or two (KHAWWM, Adrian and myself) Mazda 3 drivers and their genuine feedback. There is again no winner or loser here, just feedback sharing for anyone who reads this thread for them to decide on how to intepret our results/ feedbacks.

Hi vr2turbo,

Thanks. I do not aim to prove "who is right or wrong" and or "which installer/ product" is better. Just an avenue to highlight this whole episode experience and thoughts on the matter (the 4 points highlighted) for readers to be aware ...thats all.

i think some people forget that this is a forum. you can share your thoughts and ideas here?

i agree with "bmkia" on this matter. he has every right to say what he like in this forum. and it is by no means attacking someone else.

its like car tyres. if i say the car tyre is lousy, by no means i am attacking the dude, whom designed it, or that dude that installed it for me. its just my opinion.

Desmond, your services are really expensive. I'm sorry, but that is probably true for 90% of the drivers. also, perhaps you could be more tactful when replying? when anyone say someone is not satisfied with your service, challenging them for full refund isnt very friendly.

"bmkia" do try to work it out with Desmond on this matter, i believe he is actually a nice guy but maybe a bit proud? *read almost all of the threads with regards to NVH*

i just joined this forum and found this thread, particularly interesting.

but, all in all, i believe, anyone from anywhere should be allowed to air their grievances and opinion. dont like it? well, maybe some one will.

This is an interesting topic & an eye opener to SP kaki here. Thanks bmkia for bringing this up for the better
awareness of the rest of us.

However, this is also the best time for some SP installer to ponder about how to prove to their customers their
SP installation works. DB measurement using a sound meter is one way. The only thing which is unfortunate
to customers is that, this only measures SPL (sound pressure level) in the cabin. Human ear's perception
to "noisiness" relate to a sound property called loudness (unit of measurement is Sone; not Decibel or DB for
SPL). This means a low DB does not necessary translate to the perception of a quieter environment.

For instance, as mentioned by Des, his SPL measurement in a Lexus IS250 shows at idling, 56DB is achieved.
This is nothing special. My previous 2.4V camry & current 2.0G reads about the same reading when idles. But
some how or rather, you will feel more quiet when a Lexus IS or GS fire up. For sharing, a quiet meeting room
is about 40 plus DB. Similar to DB measurement in my other car, a Toyota Harrier (aka Lexus RX in overseas
market, not JDM). However, you will feel that a SUV is always more "noisier" than a sedan car, even though
DB measurement tells otherwise or similar readings.

May be someone with acoustic engineering background can share something here.

Fair enough if the three Mazda 3 owners can compare it among themselves.....as customers feedback....

Hi all NVH sifu's...

I've read the previous pages and indeed felt sorry for bmkia as KL Auto's work/product did not meet his expectation.

Well, am not taking sides here but as someone in here says, this is a forum and I'm here to share my personal experience on 'soundproofing' my Kia K5.

Got my car exactly a month ago and despite it being rather well built, it still has its flaws, in this sense, the tire roar.

My first stop was at KK Lau where I spent close to 4k on Dynamat and Dynaliner and Insuflex materials.
Here's some details on the installation:
Dynamat Extreme & Dynaliner on all 4 doors, complete boot area and spare tire well, rear free-air subwoofer tray, C-pillars, rear body panels, front wheel fenders and front bonnet.
Insuflex applied inside the plastic wheel arch covers

Result: First difference I noticed being an audiophile, is that the bass mids plays stronger/louder, door rattles are vanished, subwoofer played with much more boom with EQ all set to flat.
The cabin was 'quieter' but at the expense of a 'pressurized' sensation. No doubt exterior (traffic) noise was reduced tremendously, but once I started driving, the tire roar became more prominent and 'locked-in' inside the cabin.

No doubt it's more silent than stock, this silence is deafening!
Well, of course, after spending that amount of $$, it left me with no choice.... until......


.... I decided to pop by KL Auto to help me on the 'louder-locked-in' tire noise.
Now this is where it gets interesting.....

I admit I was really skeptical as I would need to spend AGAIN ..but then after some 'acoustic-education' from Desmond, on the pressurized-cabin, and most suprising was I happen to be at KL Auto with 3 other K5's; All done with different sound-proof materials (brands) and on different tires! Only mine was running on stock tires.

I sat in one where multiple-layers of STP dampening materials was used on the doors which naturally coz a 'more-pressurized' cabin, and of course one that is completely done by KL Auto, which felt so much more 'airy' inside while maintaining the silence from exterior noises. We sat in each others K5 around the area and difference is clearly noticeable.

Given that confidence, I went ahead with the 'Comfort' package where Autofoam is applied on the undercarriage, STP Mastic treatment on the wheel arches, boot-lid treatment and most painfully the REMOVAL of Dynamat from the fenders, and Insuflex from the wheel-arch covers (which was the MAIN culprit in locking in the tire roar instead of dissipating it) replaced with the 3M Roar buster materials. This is NOT a 'plug-and play' thing as Desmond and his team took time to fine tune the acoustics by driving around a few rounds and making sure the materials are placed at the 'right' spot to ensure the tire roar are minimized.
After all was done, I drove out on the usual Tun Razak stretch and onto Mahameru, and to my suprise, the tire roar has been reduced tremendously, a few days later, after the foam were fully cured, the ride felt even more comfortable ,with lesser vibration intrusion into the cabin and better handling.

Going back to KL Auto after 10-days for cleaning of the excess foam, again I seeked Desmond's expertise on the engine noise which are more audible now since the tire noise had been reduced. There's also some resonance on the subwoofer tray where a hefty amount of Dynamat was applied. I have to admit, I got greedy and wanted a more silent ride, though am not seeking for handling enhancement, I was all out on a 'quest' to eliminate even more road noise. Yes! Call me greedy and picky!

Instantly, Desmond knew exactly what I'm after and did a FOC 'enhancement' for me on the wheel arches, which further reduced the road noise which dissipated and kept the noise to sound much further 'away' from the cabin.
Realizing it could only get better, I went ahead to treat the A,B and C pillar for maximum satisfaction, though Desmond only recommended to do the A-pillar first. ...again greedy! ..and the premium mats on the floor beneath the rear bench.

As for the resonance on the subwoofer tray, the team opened it up and to my horror REMOVAL of the DYNAMAT!
OMG! As the guys tear it out painfully due to the ultra-stickly bitumen, I felt painful as well coz it was all $$$$ !!!

Hoping for the best and finally the OEM hood insulation material was replaced with STP Hood Solution, which before that MORE Dynamat was removed from the bonnet surface which I then realized is the MAJOR cause of the locked in engine sound that was audible like a 'engine-block soundstage' played in front of me everytime I drive!

The RESULT: Instantly noticeable drop in engine noise, close to none during idling and very much reduced engine sound while driving. The bass played clearer, and more upfront to the front of cabin, bass played with a livelier punch (before this it was less punchy and it sounded like the sub frequencies was 'stuck' at the back).
The cabin is now even more 'airy' and comfortable than what was already improved previously. Wind noise is very much reduced, handling felt much more like a continental with solid chasis WHICH of course enhance the overall feel and steering response.
I'm truly amazed at what was achieved given what I spent at KL Auto which was around $3.5k

I'm a happy customer and will definitely recommend others here if they are as picky as I am.
It is sad that some perceive soundproof as making the car 'solid' like a tank, and not get the 'quiet feel' they expect.

All in KL Auto is definitely THE place to benchmark in-car acoustic-control. One may not fully trust Desmond and his words, but his clientele of clients from Perodua to high end imported marques speaks louder than mere words.


ps: My advice to all the bro's into NVH, do it right the first time! I've learnt a hard lesson on spending my $$$ on Dynamat as I've tried and tested both and now I can testify on the difference!

Cheers!

[quote name='baldwin' date='Aug 24 2012, 05:54 PM' post='1834054']
Hi all NVH sifu's...

I've read the previous pages and indeed felt sorry for bmkia as KL Auto's work/product did not meet his expectation.

Well, am not taking sides here but as someone in here says, this is a forum and I'm here to share my personal experience on 'soundproofing' my Kia K5.

Got my car exactly a month ago and despite it being rather well built, it still has its flaws, in this sense, the tire roar.

My first stop was at KK Lau where I spent close to 4k on Dynamat and Dynaliner and Insuflex materials.
Here's some details on the installation:
Dynamat Extreme & Dynaliner on all 4 doors, complete boot area and spare tire well, rear free-air subwoofer tray, C-pillars, rear body panels, front wheel fenders and front bonnet.
Insuflex applied inside the plastic wheel arch covers


Wow... an interesting read indeed with a 100% feedback contrast to mine. You wish you discovered KL Auto before KK Lau and me the other way around.

Can you share what exactly was removed and added in KL Auto as not all the details are very clear. I am just trying to get the best from both worlds (KK Lau & KL Auto). It seems that the following was removed / replaced /added for better soundproofing (RM3.5K):-

1) Comfort Package (Autofoam in the undercarriage)
2) STP Mastic treatment on 4 wheel arches
3) Installed Roar Buster and replaced the Dynamat Extreme and Insuflex in the Wheel Arches
4) Installed STP Hood Solution and replaced the Dynamat Extreme in the Hood
5) Autofoamed A, B & C pillars

Item 1) & 2) most probably set u back RM1K each and item 3) & 4) & 5) most likely came up to another RM1.5K giving it a total RM3.5K.

Please feel free to correct or add anything I missed out on the above.

Does your current car still have Dynamat Extreme in your 4 doors, boot and floor under your carpeting or this was removed as well?