Nistelrooy,
Good for you...at least you are happy with your citroen....well i myself was a citroen lover and i stil love the wonderful design...C5??
Unfortunately after reading about the C5 in the citroen forum...err someone from singapore i think...i changed my mind and got myself a Sonata....thats another story....
Whatver the debate I still LOVE the ride comfort in the big citroens and yes the handling is..SUPERB!
cheers
michael
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e36 vs ZX 2.0 16V handlingwise
Started by
whatcar
, Mar 06 2003 01:01 AM, 162 replies to this topic
#22
Posted 11 March 2003 - 10:59 AM
vonnig
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wow... whatcar... you certainly stirred the hornet's nest... hehehe
what a helluva place to be havin a debate on a Citroen and a BMW... geez.... dun you guys get it yet...?
anyways... here's what i know... Citroen handling... greatest in its class... and at least for the time that it was in production... let's not bother comparing with the current batch of cars... i mean the ZX suspension is technology from the late 80's.... and we're currently in the next millenium already... and the suspension that a BMW had in those days... i dun think came close to the Citroen... admittedly... it has made improvements over the years and come out with an equal if not better suspension of that particular class... let's not go comparing a whale with and ikan bilis ler... or a Superbike and a tricycle... or whatever nots ler... let's be gentlemen and compare on a proper scale...
personally i think that the ZX for it's class would compare up to the class of a 325i... a 328i... engine wise let's not compare... comfort-wise... we can still compare... handling... well... we could compare... but if you guys wanna talk about an M3... then let's talk about the PSA groups achievement with their rally cars ler... let's not mention about BMWs in the Formula 1... that again is in different league...
conclusion... well... technology changes and improves over time... Citroen ZX was great in it's heyday.... and can still give a good showing now...not at it's best anymore but still good enuff... i'm happy with my ZX...
what a helluva place to be havin a debate on a Citroen and a BMW... geez.... dun you guys get it yet...?
anyways... here's what i know... Citroen handling... greatest in its class... and at least for the time that it was in production... let's not bother comparing with the current batch of cars... i mean the ZX suspension is technology from the late 80's.... and we're currently in the next millenium already... and the suspension that a BMW had in those days... i dun think came close to the Citroen... admittedly... it has made improvements over the years and come out with an equal if not better suspension of that particular class... let's not go comparing a whale with and ikan bilis ler... or a Superbike and a tricycle... or whatever nots ler... let's be gentlemen and compare on a proper scale...
personally i think that the ZX for it's class would compare up to the class of a 325i... a 328i... engine wise let's not compare... comfort-wise... we can still compare... handling... well... we could compare... but if you guys wanna talk about an M3... then let's talk about the PSA groups achievement with their rally cars ler... let's not mention about BMWs in the Formula 1... that again is in different league...
conclusion... well... technology changes and improves over time... Citroen ZX was great in it's heyday.... and can still give a good showing now...not at it's best anymore but still good enuff... i'm happy with my ZX...
#23
Posted 11 March 2003 - 12:02 PM
nistelrooy
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Taxi Driver
Couldn't agree more, vonning.
During its time,in the early 90's, the ZX was arguably the best Golf sized hatch in its class. Nowadays, a lot of other cars have overtaken it, but it's still a fine drive.
Likewise, the 3 series is still the benchmark for sports saloons. Its the car so many other makes consistently try yet fail to beat in the segment.
I'm not kidding myself, a 330i (or 328/325) would leave my ZX to choke on its dust. Its useless trying to compare the two, as they are in completely different classes.
As a parting shot, (now don't come after me you beemer worshippers!) i have one word to describe Citroen: underrated. Only for those in the know (and brave enuff!). As for Beemers, well, its more of a status symbol, perhaps. Its a yell to society that you've made it big, so obviously, i still have a long way to go...(sigh)..(wink,wink)..
During its time,in the early 90's, the ZX was arguably the best Golf sized hatch in its class. Nowadays, a lot of other cars have overtaken it, but it's still a fine drive.
Likewise, the 3 series is still the benchmark for sports saloons. Its the car so many other makes consistently try yet fail to beat in the segment.
I'm not kidding myself, a 330i (or 328/325) would leave my ZX to choke on its dust. Its useless trying to compare the two, as they are in completely different classes.
As a parting shot, (now don't come after me you beemer worshippers!) i have one word to describe Citroen: underrated. Only for those in the know (and brave enuff!). As for Beemers, well, its more of a status symbol, perhaps. Its a yell to society that you've made it big, so obviously, i still have a long way to go...(sigh)..(wink,wink)..
#24
Posted 11 March 2003 - 12:10 PM
tnigel
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White Lightning
Unfortunately I have already sold off my immaculate BX in mid-2001. If only I had known about this Forum earlier with you guys really keen on Citroens. I had to practically beg someone to buy it off me. The buyer had no regrets whatsoever after buying it.
#25
Posted 11 March 2003 - 12:32 PM
remyzx
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mr rotichanai,
hahaha, some kancils have better handling than your E36.... i guess some of your members would disagree with this statement or is there something wrong with your E36. well i do not wanna argue anymore in this matter as now i know that a kancil has better handling than a E36.
well what i must say is that a ZX does handle better than a kancil so.......the ZX will handle better than a E36 ain't it.
the comparison with a 330i and a skyline and supra is based on their 3.0 capacity as well, and yes i know that they have other engine variants as well, but it is the performance of these engines that im comparing and mind you mr rotichanai, the 330i is also in the sports category as well.
hahaha, some kancils have better handling than your E36.... i guess some of your members would disagree with this statement or is there something wrong with your E36. well i do not wanna argue anymore in this matter as now i know that a kancil has better handling than a E36.
well what i must say is that a ZX does handle better than a kancil so.......the ZX will handle better than a E36 ain't it.
the comparison with a 330i and a skyline and supra is based on their 3.0 capacity as well, and yes i know that they have other engine variants as well, but it is the performance of these engines that im comparing and mind you mr rotichanai, the 330i is also in the sports category as well.
#26
Posted 11 March 2003 - 01:55 PM
beemer328
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Milo;
You forgot to mention thent the real (hydro-pneumatic) Citroen can corners on three wheels!!!
Remy;
Read what Roti says.. there is the operative word "IF". What Roti is saying is that if the basis of comparison is that one Kancil driver is able to overtake a Bimmer (without that Bimmer driver bothers), then the Kancil driver goes to all mamak stalls and proclaim that Kancil can Tapau Bimmer, then that is a shallow basis of comparison.
Yes ZX handling is good, just ask any motor journalist in New Zealand, Australia, Germany, UK and US. They must be really screwup to benchmark the handling of a Bimmer than a Cirtoen.
Screw those journalists!
You forgot to mention thent the real (hydro-pneumatic) Citroen can corners on three wheels!!!
Remy;
Read what Roti says.. there is the operative word "IF". What Roti is saying is that if the basis of comparison is that one Kancil driver is able to overtake a Bimmer (without that Bimmer driver bothers), then the Kancil driver goes to all mamak stalls and proclaim that Kancil can Tapau Bimmer, then that is a shallow basis of comparison.
Yes ZX handling is good, just ask any motor journalist in New Zealand, Australia, Germany, UK and US. They must be really screwup to benchmark the handling of a Bimmer than a Cirtoen.
Screw those journalists!
#27
Posted 11 March 2003 - 02:13 PM
Augusta
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Driver
Guys,
What a coincidence ! I actually have been driving a ZX 2.0 8V manual since Dec 1994(and still) and also the e36 325i Auto since March 2002.
My ZX is stock and in the early days I have managed to drive it up to 220kmh on the Ayer Keroh Highway at 2:00am. As for the 325i, I have changed the shocks last June to Bilstein Sports with Eibach springs. So far, only dare take it to 180kmh (getting old i guess)
If I were to compare both in terms of cornering based on std specs w/o mods, my vote will go to the ZX simply because it gives me better feedback possibly due to it being a Manual. What I mean is that at the point of entering a corner, at the prevailing speed with the correct gear engaged, I know straight away that I will make it out of the corner in one piece.
As for the 325i, before I changed the shocks to Bilstein, it gave me a sense of the tail getting away when I approach the same corner at the same speed as my ZX. After changing to Bilstein Sports, at least the cornering capability has improved.
In summary, if I were to choose between the 2, my conclusion would be:
1) The ZX for hard driving and late braking due to its sheer fun and responsiveness from Point to Point
2) The 325i for high speed crusing and tackling long sweeping corners
Cheers guys !!!
What a coincidence ! I actually have been driving a ZX 2.0 8V manual since Dec 1994(and still) and also the e36 325i Auto since March 2002.
My ZX is stock and in the early days I have managed to drive it up to 220kmh on the Ayer Keroh Highway at 2:00am. As for the 325i, I have changed the shocks last June to Bilstein Sports with Eibach springs. So far, only dare take it to 180kmh (getting old i guess)
If I were to compare both in terms of cornering based on std specs w/o mods, my vote will go to the ZX simply because it gives me better feedback possibly due to it being a Manual. What I mean is that at the point of entering a corner, at the prevailing speed with the correct gear engaged, I know straight away that I will make it out of the corner in one piece.
As for the 325i, before I changed the shocks to Bilstein, it gave me a sense of the tail getting away when I approach the same corner at the same speed as my ZX. After changing to Bilstein Sports, at least the cornering capability has improved.
In summary, if I were to choose between the 2, my conclusion would be:
1) The ZX for hard driving and late braking due to its sheer fun and responsiveness from Point to Point
2) The 325i for high speed crusing and tackling long sweeping corners
Cheers guys !!!
#28
Posted 11 March 2003 - 04:57 PM
E46Fanatic
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A pristine stock 123 bhp 2.0 ZX 8v will only top out at a tad over 200km/h. Unless you are going down a very steep hill of driving off a cliff :)
An E36 325i on the other hand will comfortably do 220km/h and beyond.
With all the hype surrounding the ZX in this thread, I must have missed something in my drive of the ZX 2.0 16v... *boggle*
An E36 325i on the other hand will comfortably do 220km/h and beyond.
With all the hype surrounding the ZX in this thread, I must have missed something in my drive of the ZX 2.0 16v... *boggle*
#29
Posted 11 March 2003 - 05:19 PM
rotichanai
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Remyzx,
Just because 330i, Supra and Skyline have the same basic 3L engines does not mean there are in the same class - just like you don't put a 3L RX300 Lexus or any other SUV to compare here.
Like I said, Skyline and Supra are sport cars with mainly two real useful seats (for adults). 330i is a sport sedan which I can take my mrs and kids around IF I were to own one.
Just because 330i, Supra and Skyline have the same basic 3L engines does not mean there are in the same class - just like you don't put a 3L RX300 Lexus or any other SUV to compare here.
Like I said, Skyline and Supra are sport cars with mainly two real useful seats (for adults). 330i is a sport sedan which I can take my mrs and kids around IF I were to own one.
#30
Posted 11 March 2003 - 05:20 PM
rotichanai
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Remyzx,
Just because 330i, Supra and Skyline have the same basic 3L engines does not mean there are in the same class - just like you don't put a 3L RX300 Lexus or any other SUV to compare here.
Like I said, Skyline and Supra are sport cars with mainly two real useful seats (for adults). 330i is a sport sedan which I can take my mrs and kids around IF I were to own one.
Just because 330i, Supra and Skyline have the same basic 3L engines does not mean there are in the same class - just like you don't put a 3L RX300 Lexus or any other SUV to compare here.
Like I said, Skyline and Supra are sport cars with mainly two real useful seats (for adults). 330i is a sport sedan which I can take my mrs and kids around IF I were to own one.
