to kristoff,
is there any difference CVT in new proton model (not CFE segment) with saga FLX se?
some review said, thely feel bit different when test drive both car....of coz new proton got less lag throtle respone... Same engine same VT2....
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Questions and answers on CVT Saga, Exora, P3
Started by
ntc2000
, Mar 20 2012 02:25 PM, 269 replies to this topic
#52
Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:45 PM
Nabworld
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Fast & Furious
its the same...diferent tuning...which means different software probably...which oso means the flx can have that same software upgrade in service centers soon....
#53
Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:38 PM
yeongcl
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Taxi Driver
QUOTE (yeongcl @ Apr 6 2012, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, bold. Now waiting at COE. I was just driving slow, 5 min in the journey.then it happen.
Kristof say it might be engine problem.
Kristof say it might be engine problem.
Got my car back at 12:30.
They change oil control valve and did clutch test.
Hope it will not happen again.
Proton? Can or not?
#54
Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:58 PM
wcl1988
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6th Gear
QUOTE (yeongcl @ Apr 5 2012, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My car stop in the middle of the road today with CVT warning light. My car only have 1030 km on its odometer when it occur. Have email Kristof and waiting for his reply.
I hate to say this but proton is the worst company I come across. The Proton centre of excellence do not pick up the phone and email to I care (or should I say it is I don't care) is not reply. Even if it has very good product, or will not success with such lousy service.
I hate to say this but proton is the worst company I come across. The Proton centre of excellence do not pick up the phone and email to I care (or should I say it is I don't care) is not reply. Even if it has very good product, or will not success with such lousy service.
Same bro...my flx also broke down during my ODO 2500km+/-
same situation with you, drive 5 minutes only with normal speed, cvt light on...hehe...relax...proton
#55
Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:39 PM
cfa
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Road Warrior
Have a question and hope you won't find it to be stupid.
All products are test based on a margin of safety / error.
Take tyres for instance say V rated tyres.
The max speed is 240 km/h but most cars that use such tyres only do max 200 km/h. So the margin of safety is 83% and you have headroom of about 17%. Moreover, most ppl won't hit 200km/h on a daily basis so the margin of safety is much higher. Even for lower rated tyres like H, which has speed rating of 190km/h (am i right), those cars normally would only go up to 160km/h, Margin is only 84%.
However with the Prevae CFE, someone said that the max torque that the CVT Gearbox can take is about 215 to 220 nm. Say 220. The maximum torque that the CFE produces is 205 nm. However, the arguement between HP for speed and Torque for pick-up and daily driving really comes to the pic.
To achieve 138 hp to hit 200 km/h is not something that you do every day but to hit 205 nm at say 2000 to 4000 rpm is something that one would expect to hit on a daily basis with a turbo engine.
However 205 nm out of 220 nm max is a margin of safety of 93%. Only 7% headroom before bye-bye to the engine.
I did post earlier that CVT engine should be able to take 205 nm, but that was before i read that the max torque that the CVT engine can take is only a puny 220 nm. A margin of safety of 93% on almost a daily basis is cutting it too thin. Of course, there is bound to be torque loss but how much are we talking about. If the torque loss is very high, also not good for Proton reputation.
This also serves as a warning to all future Pravae buyers, don't instal after-mart Turbo Booster or your gearbox will explode.
Please educate me.
All products are test based on a margin of safety / error.
Take tyres for instance say V rated tyres.
The max speed is 240 km/h but most cars that use such tyres only do max 200 km/h. So the margin of safety is 83% and you have headroom of about 17%. Moreover, most ppl won't hit 200km/h on a daily basis so the margin of safety is much higher. Even for lower rated tyres like H, which has speed rating of 190km/h (am i right), those cars normally would only go up to 160km/h, Margin is only 84%.
However with the Prevae CFE, someone said that the max torque that the CVT Gearbox can take is about 215 to 220 nm. Say 220. The maximum torque that the CFE produces is 205 nm. However, the arguement between HP for speed and Torque for pick-up and daily driving really comes to the pic.
To achieve 138 hp to hit 200 km/h is not something that you do every day but to hit 205 nm at say 2000 to 4000 rpm is something that one would expect to hit on a daily basis with a turbo engine.
However 205 nm out of 220 nm max is a margin of safety of 93%. Only 7% headroom before bye-bye to the engine.
I did post earlier that CVT engine should be able to take 205 nm, but that was before i read that the max torque that the CVT engine can take is only a puny 220 nm. A margin of safety of 93% on almost a daily basis is cutting it too thin. Of course, there is bound to be torque loss but how much are we talking about. If the torque loss is very high, also not good for Proton reputation.
This also serves as a warning to all future Pravae buyers, don't instal after-mart Turbo Booster or your gearbox will explode.
Please educate me.
#56
Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:33 PM
ntc2000
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Knight Rider
QUOTE (cfa @ Apr 16 2012, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have a question and hope you won't find it to be stupid.
All products are test based on a margin of safety / error.
Take tyres for instance say V rated tyres.
The max speed is 240 km/h but most cars that use such tyres only do max 200 km/h. So the margin of safety is 83% and you have headroom of about 17%. Moreover, most ppl won't hit 200km/h on a daily basis so the margin of safety is much higher. Even for lower rated tyres like H, which has speed rating of 190km/h (am i right), those cars normally would only go up to 160km/h, Margin is only 84%.
However with the Prevae CFE, someone said that the max torque that the CVT Gearbox can take is about 215 to 220 nm. Say 220. The maximum torque that the CFE produces is 205 nm. However, the arguement between HP for speed and Torque for pick-up and daily driving really comes to the pic.
To achieve 138 hp to hit 200 km/h is not something that you do every day but to hit 205 nm at say 2000 to 4000 rpm is something that one would expect to hit on a daily basis with a turbo engine.
However 205 nm out of 220 nm max is a margin of safety of 93%. Only 7% headroom before bye-bye to the engine.
I did post earlier that CVT engine should be able to take 205 nm, but that was before i read that the max torque that the CVT engine can take is only a puny 220 nm. A margin of safety of 93% on almost a daily basis is cutting it too thin. Of course, there is bound to be torque loss but how much are we talking about. If the torque loss is very high, also not good for Proton reputation.
This also serves as a warning to all future Pravae buyers, don't instal after-mart Turbo Booster or your gearbox will explode.
Please educate me.
All products are test based on a margin of safety / error.
Take tyres for instance say V rated tyres.
The max speed is 240 km/h but most cars that use such tyres only do max 200 km/h. So the margin of safety is 83% and you have headroom of about 17%. Moreover, most ppl won't hit 200km/h on a daily basis so the margin of safety is much higher. Even for lower rated tyres like H, which has speed rating of 190km/h (am i right), those cars normally would only go up to 160km/h, Margin is only 84%.
However with the Prevae CFE, someone said that the max torque that the CVT Gearbox can take is about 215 to 220 nm. Say 220. The maximum torque that the CFE produces is 205 nm. However, the arguement between HP for speed and Torque for pick-up and daily driving really comes to the pic.
To achieve 138 hp to hit 200 km/h is not something that you do every day but to hit 205 nm at say 2000 to 4000 rpm is something that one would expect to hit on a daily basis with a turbo engine.
However 205 nm out of 220 nm max is a margin of safety of 93%. Only 7% headroom before bye-bye to the engine.
I did post earlier that CVT engine should be able to take 205 nm, but that was before i read that the max torque that the CVT engine can take is only a puny 220 nm. A margin of safety of 93% on almost a daily basis is cutting it too thin. Of course, there is bound to be torque loss but how much are we talking about. If the torque loss is very high, also not good for Proton reputation.
This also serves as a warning to all future Pravae buyers, don't instal after-mart Turbo Booster or your gearbox will explode.
Please educate me.
that why I reject offer from racechip M'sia reseller who request my CFE for their racechip tuning. They request my CFE for diagnose and configuration purposes on their product (racechip pro)
For me, it is too risky for CVT to handle additional power torque from the engine. Remain stock is the best option for me..
#57
Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:19 AM
Kwar
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Road Warrior
Agree... a simple mods ~ Unichips or EFR (cost only RM350) for NA engine easily can get xtra 10Nm. For turbocharge can easily get +20/30 Nm!! So with the attitude of Malaysian drivers whom always like to upgrade their stock engine .... Proton will facing a lot of problems/complains of gbox failure!! CFE + CVT = DISASTER!!!
#58
Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:16 AM
ntc2000
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Knight Rider
QUOTE (Kwar @ Apr 17 2012, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agree... a simple mods ~ Unichips or EFR (cost only RM350) for NA engine easily can get xtra 10Nm. For turbocharge can easily get +20/30 Nm!! So with the attitude of Malaysian drivers whom always like to upgrade their stock engine .... Proton will facing a lot of problems/complains of gbox failure!! CFE + CVT = DISASTER!!!
that y i advise dont simply mod this car... remain stock is the best option.
#59
Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:10 PM
kristof
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huy guys,
I have been to Belgium to the main company for some weeks that is why I haven't been around.
Some answers:
Chiptuning and AT gearboxes:
First of all it's never good to chiptune engines that use a AT gearbox, second of all I don't recomment to chiptune this CFE engine in particular! We have run quite some test, and soms tests with blow off valves not working causing overpressure from the turbo (that is what they will do) with disastereous consequences! This engine is still highly based on a non turbo engine, therefore components are allready on their limit.
As for the CVT 220Nm is indeed a maximum when it goes for mass production. same as a VW golf GTI is max 220hp for production, this does not mean you don't have any reserves but from that point you will shorten the lifetime. Why is this so critical for CVT? A CVT uses a steel belt pressed in between two pulleys, by varying clamping on the second and first pulley you shift. When you are not shifting you still need clamping force to push the belt so it wouldn't slip. This pressure is based on the torque the CVT needs to handle -> high torque? high clamping force! this torque is told to our control unit from the engine ECU. When you chip your car however the ECU will tell us the stock 205Nm and not the real 235Nm resulting in possible damage. Even though we do have some safety build in, i highly discourage chipping the ECU.
Keep in mind that proton will retract warranty in these matters!
CVT overheating?
Our CVT will never overheat doing high speed due to the oil cooler installed. Flow through is cooler is very high at high speeds (both oil and wind going trough). I challange you...
rebuilding a car CVT is not easy!
I was a prototype car builder before and did lots of projects for Punch powertrain. Building electric cars, converting cars to full hybrid AND converting MT cars to CVT. This is not an easy job especially the wiring. We need a lot of CAN messages as well (communication on high speed bus between ECU and TCU and even ABS) this makes it all very hard to convert.
But everything is possible so it seems. I converted a new Fiat 500 model to Mini Cooper engine with CVT and a smart 1.5 Brabus MT to CVT. I also own a Mini Cooper Works GP limited edition with 218hp that uses a CVT (comparable to CVT3).
best regards!
I have been to Belgium to the main company for some weeks that is why I haven't been around.
Some answers:
Chiptuning and AT gearboxes:
First of all it's never good to chiptune engines that use a AT gearbox, second of all I don't recomment to chiptune this CFE engine in particular! We have run quite some test, and soms tests with blow off valves not working causing overpressure from the turbo (that is what they will do) with disastereous consequences! This engine is still highly based on a non turbo engine, therefore components are allready on their limit.
As for the CVT 220Nm is indeed a maximum when it goes for mass production. same as a VW golf GTI is max 220hp for production, this does not mean you don't have any reserves but from that point you will shorten the lifetime. Why is this so critical for CVT? A CVT uses a steel belt pressed in between two pulleys, by varying clamping on the second and first pulley you shift. When you are not shifting you still need clamping force to push the belt so it wouldn't slip. This pressure is based on the torque the CVT needs to handle -> high torque? high clamping force! this torque is told to our control unit from the engine ECU. When you chip your car however the ECU will tell us the stock 205Nm and not the real 235Nm resulting in possible damage. Even though we do have some safety build in, i highly discourage chipping the ECU.
Keep in mind that proton will retract warranty in these matters!
CVT overheating?
Our CVT will never overheat doing high speed due to the oil cooler installed. Flow through is cooler is very high at high speeds (both oil and wind going trough). I challange you...
rebuilding a car CVT is not easy!
I was a prototype car builder before and did lots of projects for Punch powertrain. Building electric cars, converting cars to full hybrid AND converting MT cars to CVT. This is not an easy job especially the wiring. We need a lot of CAN messages as well (communication on high speed bus between ECU and TCU and even ABS) this makes it all very hard to convert.
But everything is possible so it seems. I converted a new Fiat 500 model to Mini Cooper engine with CVT and a smart 1.5 Brabus MT to CVT. I also own a Mini Cooper Works GP limited edition with 218hp that uses a CVT (comparable to CVT3).
best regards!
#60
Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:13 PM
kristof
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QUOTE (pgkia @ Apr 3 2012, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thanks...at least, it is not something abnormal. i will try other methods to insulate the noises from the engine bay.
for the second time, i felt the "jerking" issue. both incidents were during cold engine. i started the engine, and straight switched to "D" and drove forward. Seconds later when reached a turning, slow down, and without a full stop, i pressed the pedal and continue turning and driving forward. that was the time when i felt the car moved a bit, then a sudden loss of power(like the gear could not hold well, or the cluth open?) for a second, then the power came back (like the gear hold back, or cluth close?) and this caused the jerk. Normal?
for the second time, i felt the "jerking" issue. both incidents were during cold engine. i started the engine, and straight switched to "D" and drove forward. Seconds later when reached a turning, slow down, and without a full stop, i pressed the pedal and continue turning and driving forward. that was the time when i felt the car moved a bit, then a sudden loss of power(like the gear could not hold well, or the cluth open?) for a second, then the power came back (like the gear hold back, or cluth close?) and this caused the jerk. Normal?
Mine has this issue as well. I asked engine camlibration group and it seems that this problem is solved in the latest ECU software. In a short matter of time dealers will be able to flash this software. This problem is caused by a bad torque model of the engine at low rpm's and loads. this is not due to CVT.
Regards!
