Jump to content

Welcome to Autoworld Forum !

Sign In or Register to gain full access to our forums. By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Close
Photo

Integrity Of Journalists


  • Please log in to reply

#1
TheGunner

Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:45 PM

TheGunner

    Knight Rider

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,953 posts
Our forum member jayraptor has been raising points questioning the integrity of Malaysian automotive journalists in general, suggesting that many of us are biased to certain brands... deliberately promoting them and berating others.

The discussion started in the Chevrolet Cruze discussion thread, but shall continue here from henceforth.

I am certain that many of you forummers read a number of publications local and abroad. What are your views on the standards of automotive journalism in Malaysia?

The Gunner

Proud to be a Gunner

#2
cfa

Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:18 PM

cfa

    Road Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 833 posts
Yes, I have read Jay's comments, especially with regards to test drives of certain model and performance of certain cars.

I would not want to doubt the integrity or tehnical skills of our local journalist, evey professional should have their own standard of ethics but perhaps our local journalist are just too polite. They should call a 'spade' a 'spade'.

As an example, in the 'C' segment cars, most buyers would expect some form of independent rear suspension but some cars manufacturers still give torsion beam. Whilst this is still acceptable, provided some more extensive or aggresive testing is done to test the comfort level. And, yes, some owners can even tell the difference between multi-link and torsion beam.

However, it is a total rip-off when rear drum brakes are given in place of a disc brake. Yes, Drum Brakes are deemed sufficient but is it than value for money? I suppose, taken as a total package, then perhaps most buyers can put aside the rear drum brakes and torsion beam suspension for a sub-RM100K car but Journalist should be bold enough to critise this rear drum brake. I did tell the salesmen, if a rear drum brake was sufficient or good enough, why is 99% of other cars in this price segment giving disc brakes.

Also, I understand that there is a certain MPV that not only uses rear drum brakes but only front solid brakes instead of ventilated disc brakes. I was shocked when I saw the specs sheet - hence, would rather not buy such a car although it may be deemed sufficient.

So, Local Journalist, please be bold enough to critise when its due (and also praise when its due) and perhaps the car manufacturer may really make positive changes.


#3
TheGunner

Posted 26 September 2010 - 01:55 PM

TheGunner

    Knight Rider

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,953 posts
QUOTE (cfa @ Sep 24 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As an example, in the 'C' segment cars, most buyers would expect some form of independent rear suspension but some cars manufacturers still give torsion beam. Whilst this is still acceptable, provided some more extensive or aggresive testing is done to test the comfort level. And, yes, some owners can even tell the difference between multi-link and torsion beam.

However, it is a total rip-off when rear drum brakes are given in place of a disc brake. Yes, Drum Brakes are deemed sufficient but is it than value for money? I suppose, taken as a total package, then perhaps most buyers can put aside the rear drum brakes and torsion beam suspension for a sub-RM100K car but Journalist should be bold enough to critise this rear drum brake. I did tell the salesmen, if a rear drum brake was sufficient or good enough, why is 99% of other cars in this price segment giving disc brakes.


When it comes to torsion beam rear suspension and drum brakes, it is somewhat true that these items are actually sufficient to meet the needs of family applications.

I won't put my money on a car which uses a torsion beam at the rear, but beyond you and me, majority of buyers out there can't tell the different between a torsion beam and a multi-link rear suspension. If car makers know they can get away with offering a torsion beam rear suspension, they will. The past two generation models of the Nissan Cefiro had been using torsion beam rear suspension.

I do criticize manufacturers on these points, but even from a reader's perspective, you might find it tiresome for a journalist to keep harping on a same point.

The following C-segment cars use torsion beam rear suspension
- Peugeot 308
- Kia Forte
- Toyota Corolla Altis
- Nissan Sylphy
- Chevrolet Cruze

Can you imagine each of the above reviews dissecting their torsion beam?

Independent rear suspension and rear disc brakes are a requirement for me, but I've found that even in the fraternity of motoring journalists, not many agree with me on this.
The Gunner

Proud to be a Gunner

#4
stinger82

Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:42 PM

stinger82

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
QUOTE (TheGunner @ Sep 26 2010, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The following C-segment cars use torsion beam rear suspension
- Peugeot 308
- Kia Forte
- Toyota Corolla Altis
- Nissan Sylphy
- Chevrolet Cruze



dunno about you guys, but test driven forte and 308T and been driven to the edge by my fren(i'm in rear seat) and those cars are really good. Driven until Traction control and ESP lighted up. But forte has the tendency of torsion beam, that has a snap oversteer characteristic. can feel that forte's suspension is compress until a level, and then it push out, but control by ESP though, so, its fun smile.gif

#5
TheGunner

Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:45 PM

TheGunner

    Knight Rider

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,953 posts
QUOTE (stinger82 @ Sep 26 2010, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dunno about you guys, but test driven forte and 308T and been driven to the edge by my fren(i'm in rear seat) and those cars are really good. Driven until Traction control and ESP lighted up. But forte has the tendency of torsion beam, that has a snap oversteer characteristic. can feel that forte's suspension is compress until a level, and then it push out, but control by ESP though, so, its fun smile.gif


If you want to talk about oversteer, the one that really gives me the oversteering sensation is the Cruze. On hard cornering, you really feel the back on the verge of stepping out.

I reviewed the 308 Turbo last year against the Ford Focus, and although I found the 308 as the superior package overall, it loses out in terms of ride and handling balance to the Focus, which featured independent rear suspension.
The Gunner

Proud to be a Gunner

#6
rallychamp

Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:49 AM

rallychamp

    hands on habbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,669 posts
errr..no comment....

newbie journalist tends to tied to some manufacturer since the manufacturer was generous to them...



but an experienced journalist also tends to do the same thing to keep their job.....

but..in bolehland everything was possible..its all depend to themself to tell the truth or keep bloating...

*crazy drifter|| http://img225.images...gilalahlagi.jpg
*Drift King is Back!!|| http://img580.images...ahdkterbaik.jpg
(NFS Underground)

#7
cfa

Posted 27 September 2010 - 09:58 AM

cfa

    Road Warrior

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 833 posts
To repeat my point, torsion beam is still acceptable in C-Segment but definately not drum brakes. I said in the Altis before and on normal roads, its just as comfortable as Independent Suspension but when you start exceeding the speed limits on twisty roads, you may feel more body roll.

Back to the point of 'polite motoring journalist' is the current 10-year + old Sentra reborn in the form of Impul and still getting very positive reviews, albeit some minor comments about nothing changed in the interior. So, if there is a change in the interior, does this mean that its a great package?

Just to digress, one of the more straight shooting journalist is "Ah Toh", in CBT, that guy will give very frank comments, but he does not do much reviews, just answering questions and giving comments. There was once this guy who wrote that he bought a second hand BMW and was complaining that the service cost was very expensive (both Authorised and outside workshops), and was looking at some recommendations for workshops, Ah Toh answer was for him to sell his BMW and buy a Proton.

#8
TheGunner

Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:58 PM

TheGunner

    Knight Rider

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,953 posts
QUOTE (cfa @ Sep 27 2010, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To repeat my point, torsion beam is still acceptable in C-Segment but definately not drum brakes. I said in the Altis before and on normal roads, its just as comfortable as Independent Suspension but when you start exceeding the speed limits on twisty roads, you may feel more body roll.


It's all a matter of preference, of course. In the C-segment, I consider torsion beam rear suspension acceptable, but not preferable.

The Gunner

Proud to be a Gunner

#9
Informer

Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:37 PM

Informer

    Fast & Furious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
QUOTE (TheGunner @ Sep 24 2010, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our forum member jayraptor has been raising points questioning the integrity of Malaysian automotive journalists in general, suggesting that many of us are biased to certain brands... deliberately promoting them and berating others.

The discussion started in the Chevrolet Cruze discussion thread, but shall continue here from henceforth.

I am certain that many of you forummers read a number of publications local and abroad. What are your views on the standards of automotive journalism in Malaysia?

Nice topic...
On my point of view, we (me particularly) make a mistake by thinking the all the reviews done by foreign cars reviewers are as the same as the local ones.

One thing for sure, our local specs are "under-specs" and "under-featured" in all aspects of safety, features and sometimes of material quality.
By saying a particular car brand is good in that review only holds true for that particular test-drive version being reviewed only but not the rest of a particular model line-up.

That's why, by observation, example... when a foreign jounos write a review about a BMW 3 Series, they do come out with variety of versions due to different specs, trim levels and engine capacity and types.

Example...
BMW 320i
BMW 323i
BMW 325i
BMW 330i

Although of the same car makes, as, since such a review is made on different occasions, reading the review does somewhat differs.

Back to local reviewers...
As I see it, we need comparison type of review among same category (car segment) to see which is better than the other.

Also, about car value.
Some will say, because a particular car brand is more expensive, have got good resale value and more popular than others, theses types of brand gets better positive points than the rest.

If you read or see videos from the Kelly Blue Book report, there is always a summary of pro and cons of a particular car product.
They just don't bluntly say, car brand A is not good than car brand B, but brand A got some better points than brand B, and vice-versa.
Cheers.
Courtesy:
iMotorMy...

#10
stinger82

Posted 27 September 2010 - 02:58 PM

stinger82

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
QUOTE (cfa @ Sep 27 2010, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To repeat my point, torsion beam is still acceptable in C-Segment but definately not drum brakes. I said in the Altis before and on normal roads, its just as comfortable as Independent Suspension but when you start exceeding the speed limits on twisty roads, you may feel more body roll.


lol, only 1 brand in my mind that offers drum brake from 80k car to 120k car. lol. the N brand. lol.