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Persona's Auto Tranny...


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#11
Gunnerzz

Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:44 AM

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QUOTE (mosh @ Oct 21 2009, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
err.. hows fuzzy logic gb feels eh ? same like PV6 ? i cannot feel the gear change ? not so aggresive gear drop ? smile_question.gif

Gearchange smoothness is equal be it upshift or kickdown.
However the time it take to shift up and kickdown is quicker than Invecs II.U can feel the different.
From my personal experience,it suits agressive driving pattern better.

For example,when u accel hard and there is suddenly a slower car blocking your path,
depending on your throttle position,it will hold the current gear longer even at 4k or 5k rpm.
Invecs II wont hold lo gear as long as that.
Then,when it shift up it happen so quick.u just continue accelerating if u keep the pedal down.

I dunno how to gauge this but i think the power loss is also lower with the fuzzy logic.
However this is only my personal comparison between My BLM and my dad Waja 1.8.

On the difference with Pv6 i cannot compare as i only have brief experience with Pv6.

#12
alldisc

Posted 31 October 2009 - 11:09 AM

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QUOTE (TheGunner @ Oct 14 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Persona's auto gearbox is Mitsubishi's F4A42 4-speed automatic transmission. It's a conventional torque converter type auto gearbox. This transmission first appeared (as far as Proton is concerned) in the Waja, but has since continued to see usage in all the Campro-powered models.

INVECS-II refers to the control system used by the transmission. In most applications by Mitsubishi, the INVECS-II system comes with Tiptronic-style manual overriding.

From personal experience, this gearbox has quite an aggressive shifting programme.

Here's some official info on the INVECS-II from Mitsubishi UK: http://www.mitsubish...ures/invecs.asp

great info from the gunnerz.

let me add some. invecs is designed to adapt to an individual driving style. the original invecs actually comes with 4WD and 4WS from prototype HSR and HSR-II. if not mistaken the Lancer GT and Colt is using Invecs III with tiptronic function.

* INVECS = intelligent vehicle control system

Mitsubishi was one of the pioneer in adaptive auto transmission, designed to enhance driver control over the car - similar to a manual back in 1992 (if not mistaken it first appeared in the Mitubishi Galant Eterna 2.5 V6)

even though the waja, gen2 and persona shares the same auto gearbox but the TCU is tweaked differently. out of the three, gen2 has the most aggresive gearchanges. even a slight slope also it will drop a gear or two on its own which gets a little irrititating when we drive leisurely. and the worse is that the gearchange feels snappy.

in the persona, the problem was recitified so the response is a lot better and smoother.

the waja has the most relaxed and mild gearchange - it doesnt distract at all.

#13
jasondotcom

Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:44 PM

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sorta forgotten about this thread.

i have done some research on this gearbox... seemed like its quite a robust, durable / reliable auto tranny. what you guys think?

 


#14
Gunnerzz

Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:03 PM

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QUOTE (jasondotcom @ Dec 9 2011, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sorta forgotten about this thread.

i have done some research on this gearbox... seemed like its quite a robust, durable / reliable auto tranny. what you guys think?

Yes to robust and reliable.

Does it do the job fine? Answer is no.
Its too sluggish and gearchange is snail pace.
Response is down to the TCU tuning and with the right tweak it will match the car which most of the time it doesnt.
It still behave like our good old Wira 1.5 auto tranny. There seems to be a clear set of 2 setting, u want to go fast or slow.

With the fuzzy logic in the Waja 1.8, the TCU is much more cleverer once u get used to the system u will know how to manipulate the throttle to hold gearchange or trigger up change or kickdown.


#15
mattbok

Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:02 AM

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Hi all. Not sure if I'm the first one to have this experience with gearbox recall.

I have sent my Persona Elegance H-Line bought in Aug 2011 for 20k km service last month, I've sent to the normal Proton service centre that I would usually go to. On that day, I was informed that Proton has included my car in the gearbox recall list due to defect, hence I need to leave my car overnight to have the entire gearbox replaced. When I asked the reason for the recall, the service personnel mentioned that there was no indication in the system except that my car is in the list. The defect is definitely affecting certain batch, so better confirm with the service centre if yours is affected.

After the replacement, gear changing ratio at lower gear has improved, hence better pickup and no longer as sluggish as before the replacement. Shifting from P to R and the rest downwards also easier and smoother unlike previous time when there's a slight jerk when shifting from P to R. Haven't seen any improvement in fuel consumption, but I don't expect fuel saving since my parking in the office is multilevel and I live on top of a small hill. My average fuel consumption is about 9L/100km. Average speed is 60km/h, seldom step hard on the accelerator and I travel an average of 1,200km a month.

So, if you've taken delivery of your car in the same period as mine, remember to ask the service centre if your car is in the list. I prefer to send my car to the service centre than COSE because the service personnel will contact me for follow up the following day or a few days after the service. I had a couple of problems with this car, which still remain unsolved even after many complains to iCare and COSE, but I've decided to live with it since I will sell off the car next year.





#16
slushmatic

Posted 11 December 2011 - 08:45 AM

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QUOTE (mattbok @ Dec 10 2011, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi all. Not sure if I'm the first one to have this experience with gearbox recall.

I have sent my Persona Elegance H-Line bought in Aug 2011 for 20k km service last month, I've sent to the normal Proton service centre that I would usually go to. On that day, I was informed that Proton has included my car in the gearbox recall list due to defect, hence I need to leave my car overnight to have the entire gearbox replaced. When I asked the reason for the recall, the service personnel mentioned that there was no indication in the system except that my car is in the list. The defect is definitely affecting certain batch, so better confirm with the service centre if yours is affected.

After the replacement, gear changing ratio at lower gear has improved, hence better pickup and no longer as sluggish as before the replacement. Shifting from P to R and the rest downwards also easier and smoother unlike previous time when there's a slight jerk when shifting from P to R. Haven't seen any improvement in fuel consumption, but I don't expect fuel saving since my parking in the office is multilevel and I live on top of a small hill. My average fuel consumption is about 9L/100km. Average speed is 60km/h, seldom step hard on the accelerator and I travel an average of 1,200km a month.

So, if you've taken delivery of your car in the same period as mine, remember to ask the service centre if your car is in the list. I prefer to send my car to the service centre than COSE because the service personnel will contact me for follow up the following day or a few days after the service. I had a couple of problems with this car, which still remain unsolved even after many complains to iCare and COSE, but I've decided to live with it since I will sell off the car next year.


Interesting - probably the most expensive job possible on a Persona, replacing the whole auto transmission unit
Wonder if the fault was with Mitsubishi's assembly or Proton's instilation?
'Do average things - get average results'

#17
mattbok

Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:28 PM

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QUOTE (slushmatic @ Dec 11 2011, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting - probably the most expensive job possible on a Persona, replacing the whole auto transmission unit
Wonder if the fault was with Mitsubishi's assembly or Proton's instilation?


Slushmatic, there were two items replaced without charge in the service, first being the gearbox and second being the front disc, both sides of course. In April, I had the left passenger door replaced at COSE, but the problem remain unsolved. Wonder what else would Proton replace next

#18
slushmatic

Posted 11 December 2011 - 06:50 PM

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QUOTE (mattbok @ Dec 11 2011, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Slushmatic, there were two items replaced without charge in the service, first being the gearbox and second being the front disc, both sides of course. In April, I had the left passenger door replaced at COSE, but the problem remain unsolved. Wonder what else would Proton replace next

You do seem to have been unlucky with yours - Personas don't generaly seem to suffer with serious assembly/reliability issues and are certainly better than the earlier GEN-2's.
Maybe you got what we used to call a 'Friday Afternoon' car sad.gif
'Do average things - get average results'

#19
mattbok

Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:47 PM

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QUOTE (slushmatic @ Dec 11 2011, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You do seem to have been unlucky with yours - Personas don't generaly seem to suffer with serious assembly/reliability issues and are certainly better than the earlier GEN-2's.
Maybe you got what we used to call a 'Friday Afternoon' car sad.gif


Indeed, luck has never been on my side whenever I buy a Proton car, this is the 7th Proton car bought in my family. Time to give othe makes a try next year.

#20
mosh

Posted 13 December 2011 - 06:00 PM

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QUOTE (mattbok @ Dec 11 2011, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indeed, luck has never been on my side whenever I buy a Proton car, this is the 7th Proton car bought in my family. Time to give othe makes a try next year.


wow..! talk about luck.. thats a 7 bad luck sign... smile_shock.gif