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Citroen Al4 Gb


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#1
leeinred

Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:31 PM

leeinred

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Hi guys,
I read with interest on some of the concern with regard to Citroen cars. I do own 2 units of Citroen cars, 1 C5 2.0 and another Xsara Picasso 2.0. Both in red colour. Allow me to share some of my experience on how to maintain these so-called “French cars.

Be it a Citroen/Peugeot/Renault or Volkswagen cars, car owners somehow do have to be technical and mechanically inclined when dealing with these cars. First and forth most is the Gear Box, the so-called AL4 Gear Box. AL4 GB is sealed and cannot be dismantled. Once spoiled it has to be replaced. Either u fork out $ to buy a new one (easily cost RM15k) or get a 2nd hand unit. There are not many good 2nd hands AL4 GB available in the market, used GB also no guarantee with price range from RM4-5k depending on your luck.

Therefore car owners must take good care of this so-called AL4 GB to prevent overheating. Yes, it is true that this AL4 GB is designed for life long but if u do not know how to manage it, the GB can go KO anytime. U will know it once u have “jerking” in the car or the gear will not shift when driving. So how should one manage the GB?

1. Firstly it is the GB Oil. Yes it is true that in the manual it stated that AL4 GB must use 4HP20AL4 Gear Oil, so most people in the market just use ESSO ATF 4HP20AL4 Gear Oil. But unknown to most people, the original oil come from U.K. Most ESSO ATF 4HP20AL4, 2 L pack found in the local market stated that it is “MADE IN U.E.”. I do not know which country in the world that has “U.E” initial. But then later I realized that the oil actually don’t come from U.K., it may be blended and packed in Thailand and the specification could be entire different even the colour of the oil look almost the same: Golden Yellowish in Colour. So when come to AL4 Gear Box oil, I insist that “RENAULTMATIC D3 SYN” oil be used instead. The 1 Lts blue bottle pack less likely to be faked oil in red colour. This is because when I traced back the original oil used in AL4 GB, it is the Renault cars; all Renault cars used “RENAULMATIC D3 SYN” oil and not “4HP20AL4 MADE IN U.E.!!!”

True, the RENAULMATIC OIL may at time be confused with RED DEXRON II or III oil which is also in red but one just have to be careful because it stated clearly in manual: DO NOT USE RED DEXRON III WHICH IS TO BE USED IN 4HP 14 GEARBOXES ONLY !

2. Next it is the Cooling of the AL4 GB. In all AL4 GB, the conventional cooling system is just depending on the radiator coolant passing through the little small square box of heat exchanger attached to the GB. Driving the cars during the Hot Temperature Climate with traffic jams can be very damaging to AL4 GB as well as the associate parts such as the solenoid valves, switches, hydraulic blocks, clutches and various sensors attached to and inside the GB. A temperature of 85 deg c and above can be detected outside the GB after an hr of traffic jam on the road. So it is always recommended to have the ATF Oil Cooler installed to protect the AL4 GB.

My mechanic & I have come out with a design on Oil Cooler system added with other features to protect the AL4 GB as follows:

1. Insert/ conceal the “Oil Cooler+ small Japanese Fan” in the front bumper so that when open the bonnet, the oil cooler & piping are not visible from top of Engine compartment.
2. Attach a good Japan fan to the oil cooler so that when hot oil passing through the cooler, the temperature can be effectively bring down to around 40 deg c.
3. Wiring to the fan attached to Oil Cooler is designed in such as way that it would not cause short circuit & damage to the BSI and ECU unit in the car. When big fan on Radiator rotate the small fan on oil cooler will rotate too. These wiring involve a relay, relay socket, fuse, fuse holder & adaptor in the installation.
4. Redirect the Water coolant hose from GB heat exchanger back to the Main Engine to achieve a better & faster cooling on Main Engine, this will further prevent Engine from overheating. Some mechanic likes to bypasses the heat exchanger land put a stopper at the bottom of coolant radiator which does not make any logical sense at all. Btw, make sure to use reliable good coolant with correct PH level. Too many faked coolant in the market.
5. Fabricate a special round steel block adaptor (custom made mounting) to replace the square heat exchanger in the GB, add-in the rubber seal, rubber hose to and from the oil cooler (make sure no leak), the return hose then cover with heat protector so that heat from hot oil in the hose would not transmit to another “cooler” oil return hose. After installation, test drive and plug in the computer diagnosis system, the GB oil pressure should not be less than 2.65 bars, when step on the oil panel, the oil pressure can shot up to 3.1 bars. Then u will have a perfect oil cooler installation.
6. All AL4 GB are extremely sensitive to water and flood when traveling, so redirect the “Breather” under the GB to top Engine level so that water and moisture would not get into the GB.
7. Add in a tube of “Automatic GB revitalizant + a can o Metal Conditional” to the GB so that scratched clutch plate and metal can be rebuilt after fair, wear and tear
8. Fabricate a piece of Engine cover using metal sheet to further protect the Engine & GB compartment when traveling

If u have done all the above, u will have less problem when using the French cars. Oh, if your car Engine has this “hoarding sound” or “Anti-Pollution Fault” (Carbon build up in valves) message appear, I do have “chemical solution” to solve the problem without dismantle the engine or to do any de-carbonizing cleaning on the engine. Feel free to write to me @ bklee33@hotmail.com if the need arises. Do enjoy your ride on the French car and have a present driving comfort. Take care.
Warmest regards
Lee,
Johor Bahru

Btw, installation of proper good oil cooler will cost around RM1, xxx-00. The price will depend on what items and parts the mechanic offer you and how well the installation work is done.

For JB car owner, u can contact: YANG AUTOBEST SDN BHD (They are very specialized with various type of French cars and are equipped with computer diagnosis system. The workshop is located at No. 33, Jalan Permatang 2, Taman Desa Jaya, 81100, Johor Bahru, Johor Darul Takzim Tel: 07-3538112 / 07-3533098 / 07-3538414.

For KL/ Selangor car owner, can contact RENAU TECH AUTO SERVICES S/B, workshop located at No.1, Jln Industri USJ 1/4, Tmn Perindustrian USJ 1, 47600 Subang Jaya. Tel: 03-80238914 Fax: 03-80238524

Cooler, Parts, Fan, Relay & Adaptor needed (1)
http://postimage.org/image/10077vjvo/
Fan Needed (2)
http://postimage.org/image/100w0xrac/
Temperature measured after installation:
http://postimage.org/image/y1ri0eec/
Revitalization on Engine & Gear Box:
http://postimage.org/image/y2yhzf8k/
http://postimage.org/image/y38f7i78/
http://postimage.org/image/y3s9no4k/
Decarbonising Chemical
http://postimage.org/image/y8faxq04/
computer diagnosis after installation:
http://postimage.org/image/10b4ts5es/
Position of Oil Cooler Concealed in Bumper:
http://postimage.org/image/10bn0oyuc/




#2
macrospy

Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:56 PM

macrospy

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1. AL4 can be opened, changed filter before.
2. Renault oil cannot be used, tech in Citroen asked before because additive in Renault GBox the AL4 seals cannot withstand. Gearbox similar for Renault and Al4 but the seals inside is different material ...:-) So good luck if you insist on Renault ATF.
3. U.E = European Union in French Union européenne. If you see European passport it writes U.E not E.U.

Clear some air I hope

Cheers.

#3
leeinred

Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:04 PM

leeinred

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QUOTE (macrospy @ Oct 12 2010, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. AL4 can be opened, changed filter before.
2. Renault oil cannot be used, tech in Citroen asked before because additive in Renault GBox the AL4 seals cannot withstand. Gearbox similar for Renault and Al4 but the seals inside is different material ...:-) So good luck if you insist on Renault ATF.
3. U.E = European Union in French Union européenne. If you see European passport it writes U.E not E.U.

Clear some air I hope

Cheers.



#4
leeinred

Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:07 PM

leeinred

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So u have few English words at front and a french word behind smile.gif MAKE IN U.E. smile.gif

http://postimage.org/image/148zp3nyc/




#5
macrospy

Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:26 PM

macrospy

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QUOTE (leeinred @ Oct 12 2010, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So u have few English words at front and a french word behind smile.gif MAKE IN U.E. smile.gif

http://postimage.org/image/148zp3nyc/


Not sure but actual E.U term is Union de Europa I think.

#6
leeinred

Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:27 AM

leeinred

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QUOTE (macrospy @ Oct 12 2010, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not sure but actual E.U term is Union de Europa I think.


Brother, I am here just to share my observation and experience as car owner, I have been using TOTAL ELF RENAULTMATIC D3 SYNTHETIC” OIL for the past 5 years and do not encounter problem as oppose to those car owners who use ESSO 4HP20AL4. The oil is not just Renault oil, it is a “TOTAL ELF” oil.
http://postimage.org/image/13ox3h6jo/

One is the American oil giant EXXON claim to have blended and packed in French by some and another is original French oil giant TOTAL ELF “RENAULTMATIC D3 SYNTHETIC” OIL. Both oils meet the requirement of “4HP20AL4”. The choice is there for car owner to choose. But it is a standard norm for product to state which “Country” it comes from rather than from which region, e.g. European Union. “E.U.” not “U.E”:

True AL4 filter can be changed just like any other filters but not the torque converter inside. Once the AL4 GB opened, the oil pressure may not be the same anymore.

This picture is Renault AL4 GB, exactly the same as Citroen AL4 GB. When come to AL4 GB, the seals cannot be different materials for different cars. This is just my view.
http://postimage.org/image/13p8o8m04/

btw, my citroen cars pick up in 5 second from 0km to 100km/hr once the oil padal is stepped. U would never feel any change in gear when driving. It is just like a new car smile.gif



#7
gallicharm

Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:53 AM

gallicharm

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I'm abit worried for the Xsara we use. In the last 2 years of ownership, the car has been faultless. Seriously reliable. Although no breakdowns, the gearbox does show some hickups.

The 1st gear is absent most of the time. So pickup is slow from 2nd gear. On a few occasions, the 3rd will drag on refussing to shirt to 4th. Doesn't happen often. On most days the gearbox shifts are just too beautiful.
There is no easy way out if you want to keep your Citroen in perfect shape. Preventice maintenance is the way to go

#8
ain206

Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:40 AM

ain206

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QUOTE (macrospy @ Oct 12 2010, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. AL4 can be opened, changed filter before.


Clear some air I hope

Cheers.



yup it can be open. my experience mechanic have refurbish many AL4 GB fitted to PUG and citreon.... feed back from owner.... it is as good as new.......

a good way to keep the GB in good condition is to have the oil change every 40K..... have the cash do it earlier....... what is there spending abt rm200 on the oil rather than to have it replace at more than rm5K

#9
macrospy

Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:37 PM

macrospy

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QUOTE (leeinred @ Oct 13 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One is the American oil giant EXXON claim to have blended and packed in French by some and another is original French oil giant TOTAL ELF “RENAULTMATIC D3 SYNTHETIC” OIL. Both oils meet the requirement of “4HP20AL4”. The choice is there for car owner to choose. But it is a standard norm for product to state which “Country” it comes from rather than from which region, e.g. European Union. “E.U.” not “U.E”:

We respect your opinion...definitely not repack, because the tech specs for 71141 and D3 is not the same. I guess I still stick to 71141 insisted by PSA. Esso LT71141 is not made by PSA, no point for them to insist on using it so strictly if it is not critical.

BTW..U.E or E.U is striving to be like 1 country, therefore the Euro Dollar. Not only that Esso is made in U.E but in Europe it is common to see things labelled made in U.E. Read this and you can translate in google. Made in U.E also means it adhere to the European Union Standard in manufacturing, if made in UK or France only the local standards, British or French standards.

http://www.afnor.org...view/full/17392

#10
leeinred

Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:20 PM

leeinred

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QUOTE (gallicharm @ Oct 13 2010, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm abit worried for the Xsara we use. In the last 2 years of ownership, the car has been faultless. Seriously reliable. Although no breakdowns, the gearbox does show some hickups.

The 1st gear is absent most of the time. So pickup is slow from 2nd gear. On a few occasions, the 3rd will drag on refussing to shirt to 4th. Doesn't happen often. On most days the gearbox shifts are just too beautiful.


Try change the GB oil, add-in a proper oil cooler, then put in the GB revitalizant + GB metal conditional.....An inexpensive way to fix the probelm. To dismantle and fix the AL4 GB could be quite costly too at around few K.

I do bring in some GB revitalizant & GB metal conditional, feel free to contact me @ 019-7775-719 (Mr. Lee) if you wish to try purchase these products and to have the problem fix in an affordable way. It really work for me to restore and revitalize the old automatic gear box.

WHAT IS REVITALIZATION?
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
REVITALIZANTS:

ANTICARBON, 10ml

Read this in another forum:
What is Oil Additive compare with Metal Treatment?
Oil Additive
• “Change every 5,000km
• Works with the lubricant
• No Guarantee Works with The lubricant, not the metal.
• Manufacturer warnings due to corrosive chemicals.
• Cumulative expense makes it cost preventative.

Metal Treatment
• “One-Time” Treatment
• Impregnates to the metal Surface
• Guaranteed to Reduce Wear on average – 50%
• Does not void manufacturer warranties
• Cost effective one time treatment


http://www.xadoirela...;products_id=14