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The 207

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#1
xadi

Posted 30 October 2010 - 03:40 PM

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I just finished reading the review at paultan's website. I must say the 207 is a disappointment. No new technology in the car. I honestly feel its a total rip off, to rip Malaysians of their money. Except for the front end which is line with the current x07 series, everything else in the car is based on technology which is more than a decade old. At an estimated price of 75K to 85KI'd rather get the proton inspira or the fiesta. Even the city is much better than the 207's offering. I'm anti toyota, so lets not talk about the vios.

I foresee a tragic end for the 207 unless its priced below 70K. what do you think?
Speed does not kill. Stupid driving does
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http://puggy206.blogspot.com/

#2
ain206

Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:19 PM

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QUOTE (xadi @ Oct 30 2010, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just finished reading the review at paultan's website. I must say the 207 is a disappointment. No new technology in the car. I honestly feel its a total rip off, to rip Malaysians of their money. Except for the front end which is line with the current x07 series, everything else in the car is based on technology which is more than a decade old. At an estimated price of 75K to 85KI'd rather get the proton inspira or the fiesta. Even the city is much better than the 207's offering. I'm anti toyota, so lets not talk about the vios.

I foresee a tragic end for the 207 unless its priced below 70K. what do you think?



Inspira in the wrong segment , fiesta i cannot get the french kiss and i am anti City...so no point talking.........

Singa sentiasa dihati ku.......

#3
fred88

Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:51 PM

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well, forte or inspira might be in different segment, but many malaysians (myself included) will compare based on pricing. whether it is the right or wrong thing is a separate discussion.

207 sedan at $75k vs Fiesta sedan @ $80k ... personally i'd rather go for Fiesta if I want a B segment car.
If size is the priority,then Inspira or Forte should be the choice.
IMHO, to make 207 attractive, it should be below $70k, so as people will think about the $10k delta with fiesta/mazda2.
The plus point of 207 is lion handling and some bits like auto climate, light, wiper... at a delta of $5k, i'd rather go for 6 speed twincluch of fiesta. If the delta is more than $10k, then i will start to think more ...
Of course, if money is the main priority... Persona would be the choice...

Malaysians are more spoil with choice now... used only vios and city (& swift) ... now at the same price range, we have forte, inspira, mazda2, fiesta, 207 ...
Sometimes, more choices will lead to more confusion...




#4
xadi

Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:45 PM

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QUOTE (fred88 @ Oct 30 2010, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well, forte or inspira might be in different segment, but many malaysians (myself included) will compare based on pricing. whether it is the right or wrong thing is a separate discussion.

207 sedan at $75k vs Fiesta sedan @ $80k ... personally i'd rather go for Fiesta if I want a B segment car.
If size is the priority,then Inspira or Forte should be the choice.
IMHO, to make 207 attractive, it should be below $70k, so as people will think about the $10k delta with fiesta/mazda2.
The plus point of 207 is lion handling and some bits like auto climate, light, wiper... at a delta of $5k, i'd rather go for 6 speed twincluch of fiesta. If the delta is more than $10k, then i will start to think more ...
Of course, if money is the main priority... Persona would be the choice...

Malaysians are more spoil with choice now... used only vios and city (& swift) ... now at the same price range, we have forte, inspira, mazda2, fiesta, 207 ...
Sometimes, more choices will lead to more confusion...


The very last batch of the Bestari was selling at very low prices. So now paying almost 30K for a new version of an old car which comes with a few added accessories + 200cc --> smile_dead.gif
Speed does not kill. Stupid driving does
http://aldrieca.blogspot.com/
http://puggy206.blogspot.com/

#5
lowpro

Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:13 PM

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QUOTE (xadi @ Oct 30 2010, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just finished reading the review at paultan's website. I must say the 207 is a disappointment. No new technology in the car. I honestly feel its a total rip off, to rip Malaysians of their money. Except for the front end which is line with the current x07 series, everything else in the car is based on technology which is more than a decade old. At an estimated price of 75K to 85KI'd rather get the proton inspira or the fiesta. Even the city is much better than the 207's offering. I'm anti toyota, so lets not talk about the vios.

I foresee a tragic end for the 207 unless its priced below 70K. what do you think?


hopefully i can shed some light. but maybe andy can tell the story better than me.

the 206's last price was heavily discounted and sold at a big loss. so, it wouldn't be fair to compare the price of this new car with the discounted bestari price. for almost the same price of the original naza bestari, the 207 now comes with 200cc more and more refinement (most of which cannot be seen and must be driven to be experienced). it also has specifications that were offered in the 206gti only.

if you take note, the original price of the naza branded 206 was already 68,877. this was already in consideration that was not even a peugeot badged car but a naza branded one. in your registration card, it reads naza and not peugeot. for a mere few thousand more, it now comes with a boot, newer stuff and more importantly, peugeot branding and the proper birth certificate.

then, also take into consideration also the original price of the peugeot 206 when it was sold here. easily more than rm80k for the 1.4 and rm90k for the 1.6? so, for what it offers today, it is already cheaper than the car it replaced. technology wise, well, the new prince engines won't fit into the engine bay and the only other engine available is the ew10a with vvt but this engine too was not offered by peugeot for malaysia so, the only engine to go with is the tu5jp4 which in motorsport tune can go up to 130hp. reliability was the main criteria here and peugeot felt that it is better to offer a tried and tested reliable engine for the car as research with malaysian buyers for that price and psychographic segment placed reliability higher than a high technology engine.
Let's talk about driving again!

#6
sam1741

Posted 31 October 2010 - 04:28 PM

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my first opinion is.... the looks
it just looks weird
the headlamp and bumper kinda not matching

and the tail looks strange too...
from the side it looks weird too

the 407 having the similar side window line.. but looks elegant
but the 206+ just seems strange...


still it will be better if they can re-manufacture the 206sw ...


i think the born is "207" (some) is all because of malaysian thinking
generally.. malaysian likes car with tail only
mazda 2 comes to malaysia.... and a tail come out
ford fiesta comes to malaysia .. and tail grew out
gen2 no tail... cannot sell well... persona with tail.. sell a lot better
malaysian kinda anti car without tail.. such as hothatch and wagon..

knowledge is power

#7
intermilan

Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:49 PM

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honestly..?

Its an attempt to grew Peugeot base in Malaysia. The second attempt.
And if they play their cards wrong (again), it going to be deja vu all over again.

Hate it or like it, the degree of speed, strength and coverage of Peugeot expansion here will depends on the outcome of this project. If its fail, we had to wait lagi for the next opportunity (208 sedan??). Plus Nasim will be even more conservative and restrictive in their Peugeot business expansion strategy.

Previously, they choose Bestari as the 1.4L 8V engine was supposed to be fuel-efficient, but the hatchback body-style offering backfired. And at RM68.8K, it is just plainly expensive.

Now, they introduce a sedan with a 'better' engine (it might add just ~200cc but lets not hide the fact that it also add another eight (8) more valves and this combine to give 35 bhp more i.e. power increment of 46% from what the Bestari had).

They choose the 207 sedan in this form as it is the best thing available that can be offered to Malaysia market as a whole. There is no readily available model in Peugeot stable that have better chance to be a volume seller that this one. But if they price the 207 sedan by using Bestari original price as a benchmark, they are doing a grave mistake.

The web-based responses so far are generally negative, and the negativity mainly focuses on the looks. General public response should be similar, unfortunately. But this is to be expected (do you expect otherwise?) thus Nasim should have a 'golden share' ready to veto out this disadvantage from the market minds'.

Introducing this model is a step similar with what the Japanese have done before. Honda did similarly with City (Jazz with a boot). When it proved successful, Honda invested in developing a proper City from scratch. And i believe they won't look back from this point onwards.

Peugeot & Nasim need this model to be a success. And that means the yearly sales target (5,000 units) have to be surpassed (not only achieved). But we all realise that the 207 sedan have disadvantages, its looks being the most immediate recognised. And the time for the market to accept a sedan born out of a hatchback has largely passed. Latio, SX4 Sedan is proof to this passing. Peugeot come into the fray just too late.

To me, If Peugeot & Nasim want to achieve the 207 sedan sales target and thus allow themselves a business case to justify rapid expansion into Malaysia passenger vehicle market , they have to settle for a 'win-win' solution. And the only thing they can do to achieve this is by selling it at a low price point. No other way around it. I believe with price tag that is 'deem as cheaper that what it should be', sales target will be achieved. Do this from the beginning, please. Don't repeat the sorry ending episode of the Bestari.

Beside, in China (where it is sold and originated from) the equivalent 207 sedan (China got a few variants) is retail for around RM46K (bear in mind that this already including the profit). So it seem possible to sell it in the RM65-69K range and still make money, i suppose.

If want to make more profit, go to the drawing board and design a B-segment sedan that the market will easily think look stunning properly.. I'm sure they can do this quite easily. Only with this model (in the future) can they start to raise price to the appropriate level.

Don't forget DRB-VW alliance is next in line with the Vento sedan and we all know M'sia will buy this one in drove.

And the fact is, Peugeot logo, unfortunately, are not desired that much by Malaysian. And the 207 sedan will not be able to do anything to improve this. But Peugeot newer models could do something about it.

And the only way for these newer, prettier, more desirable models to see M'sia shore (i.e. sold in large quantity) is by making sure the 207 sedan project hit the jackpot.

So again, i'll make it short this time, please sell it cheap.
You might lose a battle, but this a step necessary to win the war. For a brighter future.



#8
lowpro

Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:13 AM

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QUOTE (intermilan @ Nov 1 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
honestly..?

Its an attempt to grew Peugeot base in Malaysia. The second attempt.
And if they play their cards wrong (again), it going to be deja vu all over again.

Hate it or like it, the degree of speed, strength and coverage of Peugeot expansion here will depends on the outcome of this project. If its fail, we had to wait lagi for the next opportunity (208 sedan??). Plus Nasim will be even more conservative and restrictive in their Peugeot business expansion strategy.

Previously, they choose Bestari as the 1.4L 8V engine was supposed to be fuel-efficient, but the hatchback body-style offering backfired. And at RM68.8K, it is just plainly expensive.

Now, they introduce a sedan with a 'better' engine (it might add just ~200cc but lets not hide the fact that it also add another eight (8) more valves and this combine to give 35 bhp more i.e. power increment of 46% from what the Bestari had).

They choose the 207 sedan in this form as it is the best thing available that can be offered to Malaysia market as a whole. There is no readily available model in Peugeot stable that have better chance to be a volume seller that this one. But if they price the 207 sedan by using Bestari original price as a benchmark, they are doing a grave mistake.

The web-based responses so far are generally negative, and the negativity mainly focuses on the looks. General public response should be similar, unfortunately. But this is to be expected (do you expect otherwise?) thus Nasim should have a 'golden share' ready to veto out this disadvantage from the market minds'.

Introducing this model is a step similar with what the Japanese have done before. Honda did similarly with City (Jazz with a boot). When it proved successful, Honda invested in developing a proper City from scratch. And i believe they won't look back from this point onwards.

Peugeot & Nasim need this model to be a success. And that means the yearly sales target (5,000 units) have to be surpassed (not only achieved). But we all realise that the 207 sedan have disadvantages, its looks being the most immediate recognised. And the time for the market to accept a sedan born out of a hatchback has largely passed. Latio, SX4 Sedan is proof to this passing. Peugeot come into the fray just too late.

To me, If Peugeot & Nasim want to achieve the 207 sedan sales target and thus allow themselves a business case to justify rapid expansion into Malaysia passenger vehicle market , they have to settle for a 'win-win' solution. And the only thing they can do to achieve this is by selling it at a low price point. No other way around it. I believe with price tag that is 'deem as cheaper that what it should be', sales target will be achieved. Do this from the beginning, please. Don't repeat the sorry ending episode of the Bestari.

Beside, in China (where it is sold and originated from) the equivalent 207 sedan (China got a few variants) is retail for around RM46K (bear in mind that this already including the profit). So it seem possible to sell it in the RM65-69K range and still make money, i suppose.

If want to make more profit, go to the drawing board and design a B-segment sedan that the market will easily think look stunning properly.. I'm sure they can do this quite easily. Only with this model (in the future) can they start to raise price to the appropriate level.

Don't forget DRB-VW alliance is next in line with the Vento sedan and we all know M'sia will buy this one in drove.

And the fact is, Peugeot logo, unfortunately, are not desired that much by Malaysian. And the 207 sedan will not be able to do anything to improve this. But Peugeot newer models could do something about it.

And the only way for these newer, prettier, more desirable models to see M'sia shore (i.e. sold in large quantity) is by making sure the 207 sedan project hit the jackpot.

So again, i'll make it short this time, please sell it cheap.
You might lose a battle, but this a step necessary to win the war. For a brighter future.


i think what you really mean is perhaps sell it at a loss? wink.gif cos if you remember the last time the 206 was discounted, it was at a really big loss but it sold like hot cakes. as for the 207's price, right now, nobody knows the confirmed price and i suppose everybody is keeping their fingers crossed for the best. but to be fair, i suppose the 207 will still need to make something back for the company. these days, margins are really thin if you are not japanese or one of the established european marques.
Let's talk about driving again!

#9
fred88

Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:03 PM

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207 launched at 72,888 otr... vs fiesta sedan 79k, RM6k difference.
would it be enough to tip those fiesta buyer to to 207.
we also have mazda2 at 77k, albeit higher prices than 207, is a newer model
the traditional folks will still go for vios... money oriented might prefer a persona.
where does this leave 207?

Personally for a delta of 6k, i might go for fiesta for its technology is more recent as compared to 207; it has dual clutch and 6 speed... and i personally think fiesta is better looking, but beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Thoughts?

#10
sn00py

Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:39 AM

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QUOTE (fred88 @ Nov 3 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
207 launched at 72,888 otr... vs fiesta sedan 79k, RM6k difference.
would it be enough to tip those fiesta buyer to to 207.
we also have mazda2 at 77k, albeit higher prices than 207, is a newer model
the traditional folks will still go for vios... money oriented might prefer a persona.
where does this leave 207?

Personally for a delta of 6k, i might go for fiesta for its technology is more recent as compared to 207; it has dual clutch and 6 speed... and i personally think fiesta is better looking, but beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Thoughts?


I think most of us do not like the backside of the 207. If it comes with hatch and the price is 68,888.00 OTR then perspective may change. Wonder why are there so many ppl mentioned about the car's old technology/spec for this 207. I might say is different technology rather than old technology.
sn00pz