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2011 Hyundai Sonata I45 - Personal Review


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#11
kenso

Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:35 PM

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QUOTE (skcheng @ Jun 28 2010, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dimensions (L x W x H)

Accord
(4945 x 1845 x 1475)mm

Sonata
(4820 x 1835 x 1470)mm

Camry
(4825 x 1820 x 1470)mm

Mazda 6
(4755 x 1795 x 1440)mm

P407
(4692 x 1811 x 1452)mm


And in terms of wheelbase, the Ford Mondeo wins all

Mondeo - 2,850mm

Camry - 2,775mm

Accord - 2,800mm

Sonata YF - 2,795mm

Mazda 6 - 2,725mm

P407 - 2,725mm

#12
Informer

Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:35 PM

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Nice comparison review:
Mid-Size Family Sedan Comparison Video. 7 Cars makes.

Click to see video...
Courtesy:
iMotorMy...

#13
kenso

Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:41 PM

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QUOTE (skcheng @ Jun 28 2010, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My Avante has better head room than Mazda 6.


Well, the design of the car has much to do with head room ... especially since the rear inclination of the roof having direct impact on rear headroom. Nevertheless, it`s not surprising that the Avante feels so much roomer when one considers the following: -

Wheelbase: Avante - 2,650mm Mazda 6 and Peugeot 407 - 2,725mm. (Avante is just 7.5cm shorter than the Mazda 6 and 407)

Overall height: Avante - 1,490mm Mazda 6 - 1,440mm Peugeot 407 - 1,447mm (almost 5cm taller than the other 2 cars!)

Small difference in dimensions .... huge difference in price!

#14
Informer

Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:00 PM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jun 28 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, the design of the car has much to do with head room ... especially since the rear inclination of the roof having direct impact on rear headroom. Nevertheless, it`s not surprising that the Avante feels so much roomer when one considers the following: -

Wheelbase: Avante - 2,650mm Mazda 6 and Peugeot 407 - 2,725mm. (Avante is just 7.5cm shorter than the Mazda 6 and 407)

Overall height: Avante - 1,490mm Mazda 6 - 1,440mm Peugeot 407 - 1,447mm (almost 5cm taller than the other 2 cars!)

Small difference in dimensions .... huge difference in price!

Bro...
Different category segment...

Mid-Size Sedan... eg. Sonata, Optima, Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Peugeot 407, Cefiro (Teana), etc...
Compact Car Sedan... eg. Avante, Forte, Civic, Altis, Mazda 3, Peugeot 308, Slyphy, Latio, etc...

So... some compact car sedan will supersede dimensions of cars in the Mid-size sedan, but not driving dynamics, handling, build quality, ride, comfort, etc. will never be the same...

That's is why Car Makers makes cars to rival in separate categories...
Courtesy:
iMotorMy...

#15
kenso

Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:02 PM

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QUOTE (Informer @ Jun 28 2010, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bro...
Different category segment...

Mid-Size Sedan... eg. Sonata, Optima, Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Peugeot 407, Cefiro (Teana), etc...
Compact Car Sedan... eg. Avante, Forte, Civic, Altis, Mazda 3, Peugeot 308, Slyphy, Latio, etc...

So... some compact car sedan will supersede dimensions of cars in the Mid-size sedan, but not driving dynamics, handling, build quality, ride, comfort, etc. will never be the same...

That's is why Car Makers makes cars to rival in separate categories...


I agree with u, bro ... but can u tell me what r the criterias that separate the classification? How do we tell if a car sits in the C-segment (like the Avante) or D-segment (like the Sonata) or in your example, Compact Car Sedan and Mid-sized Sedan? As newer models are released, the sizes also become bigger, making it more and more difficult to differentiate the classes. Someone told me once it is related to wheelbase and a few references online seem to indicate this is so. If this is true, then the Avante's dimensions are very close to D-segment vehicles. I do not believe classification is divided by driving dynamics, handling, etc .... neither do I believe it is dependant on the vehicle's price and level of plush and trim (luxury level of the car) of the car. It definitely has something to do with size (small, compact, large kinda points to the same thing: dimensions) so what is the actual size per category? Anyone?

#16
skcheng

Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:04 PM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jun 28 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And in terms of wheelbase, the Ford Mondeo wins all

Mondeo - 2,850mm

Camry - 2,775mm

Accord - 2,800mm

Sonata YF - 2,795mm

Mazda 6 - 2,725mm

P407 - 2,725mm



wow, 2850mm for Mondeo, but its price also wins all smile.gif have not seen one on the road yet...

Sonata has 2cm longer wheelbase than Camry, no wonder my long legs are still OK for Sonata...



#17
Informer

Posted 29 June 2010 - 04:53 AM

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QUOTE (kenso @ Jun 28 2010, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with u, bro ... but can u tell me what r the criterias that separate the classification? How do we tell if a car sits in the C-segment (like the Avante) or D-segment (like the Sonata) or in your example, Compact Car Sedan and Mid-sized Sedan? As newer models are released, the sizes also become bigger, making it more and more difficult to differentiate the classes. Someone told me once it is related to wheelbase and a few references online seem to indicate this is so. If this is true, then the Avante's dimensions are very close to D-segment vehicles. I do not believe classification is divided by driving dynamics, handling, etc .... neither do I believe it is dependent on the vehicle's price and level of plush and trim (luxury level of the car) of the car. It definitely has something to do with size (small, compact, large kinda points to the same thing: dimensions) so what is the actual size per category? Anyone?

Bro...
You got a point there...
Marketing gimmick says that the Avante in under the small family car segment so that we can pay less and get a large family size car sedan...
Maybe you know that... but others don't...
So... let it be a "SECRET"...

Explanation about car category and classification...

Source: Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia....classifications

As I understands it...
These classifications got different terms from the American, British, Euro & Euro NCAP Car segments standards of classifications.

Simplify...
1) Wheelbase length
2) Interior passenger volume (cubic ft.)

Example...
The American category...
... Compact car is a largely North American term denoting an automobile smaller than a mid-size car, but larger than an international supermini variant, similarly recognized in much of the world as a "C-segment" (between B- and D-segment) vehicles. Compact cars usually have wheelbases between 100 inches (2,540 mm) and 105 inches (2,667 mm). The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) defines a "Compact" car as measuring between 100 cubic feet (2.8 m3) and 109 cubic feet (3.1 m3) of combined passenger and cargo volume capacity. Vehicle class size is defined in the U.S. by environmental laws in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 40 ”Protection of Environment, Section 600.315-82 Classes of comparable automobiles. Passenger car classes are defined based on interior volume index or seating capacity, except automobiles classified as a special vehicle such as those with only two designated seating positions ...

What are Compact Cars or Small Family Sedans?
What type of Cars are in these category?
Source: Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia....mall_family_car
EuroNCAP category...
http://www.euroncap....family_car.aspx

What are Mid-Size Cars or Large Family Sedans?
What type of Cars are in these category?
Source: Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia....arge_family_car
EuroNCAP category...
http://www.euroncap....family_car.aspx

Sometimes it's a bit more confusing because the Japanese also got some sort of standard classification of their own.

I also understand that HP (Horsepower) of some cars as not entirely accurate because some are calculated by "Power produce by Engine" only, whereas the Europeans do it with Engine, Chassis, Tires intact sort of HP Dy-no test measuring method and calculations.

Having said this, some HP car specs are a bit sort of fake because they are merely correct on paper, while others are true on real live testing scenarios.
That is why, the European/ American cars makes are more powerful than others car makers due to this variant standards of measurements and calculations.

The easiest way to measure standards are like this. Anybody can do it themselves (DIY).

Easiest example is "Car Speedometer".
Personally once tested, with GPS, the Waja "speedometer" is around -10% off from the true GPS speed reading.

That is why you see cars like Persona got maximum meter speed reading up to 240km/h for a 1.6L engine car, while some other makes only got 220km/h for a 2.0L engine car.

It's some sort a make believe marketing gimmick... sterb292.gif
Just my 2 cents.
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iMotorMy...

#18
limbryan

Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:47 AM

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QUOTE (jayraptor @ Jun 28 2010, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- driving feel is normal and can be noisy when rev hard.
- exhault sound terrible when rev hard.
- difficult to feel the extra hp, probably due to 6 speed gear set up.

I find many sales staffs are still not being briefed to explain the noisy rev. Many complained about the high rev additional capability after test drive thinking that this is flaw. It really makes me wanted to explain to them in free speech with loud speaker seeing the sales staffs helpless in introducing the supposed to be added advantage. SD marketing staffs didn't get my message earlier or too lazy to react?

Here's my verdict, tested with 4 full size adults male + 1 pretty salesgirl. She sits in front though we wished to have her sandwiched in between at rear, best is in between my legs as the rear legroom is ample smile_tongue.gif

Engine:
Very impressive engine, powerful low & mid end torque with additional high rev capability. When you have that 165ps@6200rpm output, sure will get the loud rev but note that this Sonata could do it because of dual CVVT. If the Accord and Camry tuned to this output, it will get very high FC and overloading the engine.

Accord has high rev but its poor torque brought it down. Camry's engine is noisy at low speed but because it does not have cam phasing at speed, it is more silent than Sonata & Accord at high speed. High revv in Sonata YF 2.0 kicks in at over 3000rpm onwards, that's when you hear the loud roar. Driven below 3000rpm, it is quiet and with 2000-2500rpm acceleration enough torque & power to glide the car around.

If wanted the more quiet version, can go for Sonata 2.4L without high rev capability. It will not be noisy. Silly mistake made by SD, should get at least 1 Sonata 2.4L to prove its great NVH. Now many mistaken Sonata has bad NVH.

The exhaust used in 2.0 is the sports muffler (shorter than standard) similar to the one used in Lancer GT. It will give more noise than standard longer reverse flow muffler. Some might not like it.

Acceleration:
Best is Sonata YF getting 10s+, I can beat Civic 1.8 & Sylphy 2.0 with this thing. Defeating Camry 11s and Accord 12s. The test drive allows me to throw the rented Camry & Accord more kaw than with friend's car. Very kind SD gave us opportunity to have fun. That new not yet open road is so useful in test drive. Accord '08 (Camry Killer) is totally inferior to Camry, don't find any reason why should I go for Accord that lost in acceleration and comfort. Much lagging can be felt in Accord while Camry has little.

Both the Camry and Accord need more revving to >3000rpm get to optimum speed whereas the Sonata YF requires just 2500rpm. The high revving in Sonata YF is used mainly for overtaking or during emergency or as supplement to high torque when going uphill. Else, no need to use.

Handling:
The test unit Sonata YF 2.0 high spec doesn't have VSC whereas the local variant Sonata 2.0 High spec has it. Even without VSC, the Sonata could still throw hard corner with little understeer. SD made wrong move to bring in that variant without VSC as test unit, totally wrong as it could give wrong perception to public. I only found out when the salesgirl told during the high speed hard cornering. The Camry & Accord with VSC off if being thrown like that would have understeered more badly. Some cars without proper suspension setup like Sylphy and VSC might enter that road at 3 o' clock instead of completing U-turn at that tiny roundabout.

NVH:
Sonata NVH, if driven above 3000rpm, the engine high rev roar might not be pleasant to some. However, driven below 3000rpm, it gives quiet ride but the sports exhaust will generate little noise. Camry's engine is louder at low speed but overall Camry wins. Accord has the high rev sounds.

Interior:
Interior width Accord wins, headroom & legroom in Accord & Camry good. Sonata YF has best legroom but interior width & headroom less than the 2. They should have retained the interior space of older Sonata NF that is best, better than both Camry & Accord. smile_angry.gif

Sonata comes with anti-heat materials dash and door panels as found in BMW & Merc. It feels like plastic but in fact they are new materials tend to replace the traditional soft materials. Less susceptible to absorb heat so that you won't get burn if you park your car under direct hot sun.

Which will I buy:
I'll go for Sonata YF for the superiority. As proven in Sonata NF and the borrowed Forte 1.6EX, I just need to glide around at 2000rpm and requre 2500rpm only when accelerating due to very good low end torque. Forte 1.6EX kerb weight 1261kg FC in city traffic recorded 340km with 27.8L of RON95 at RM50 giving 12.2km/L. Sonata's Theta II with dual CVVT would give superior reading. Only thing I dislike is its interior rear seat space same as Forte when 3 men sitting behind.


Excellent explanation smile_approve.gif . I can know this car well even I haven't touch and feel it. It's seem like a lot of SA still not well-trained of Hyundai product, such a pity. Thus, I think it might needs couple of years to build up a brand name in our country. Well, at the moment I'm not looking at Tucson i35 or Sonata YF due to the price is tough for me even I like that Tucson pretty much. Therefore, I'm looking forward on Avante 2011 model smile_tongue.gif .


#19
ymfoo

Posted 29 June 2010 - 10:14 AM

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My short drive tells me this Sonata has a very rough and noisy engine!!! Totally surprised considering everything else is superb about it.

I think the firewall is not well insulated. Something need to be done about it.

Apart from the noisy engine and the higher than expected price, this is THE car in this segment...
Cars, Oh cars......

#20
Informer

Posted 01 July 2010 - 10:50 AM

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QUOTE (ymfoo @ Jun 29 2010, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My short drive tells me this Sonata has a very rough and noisy engine!!! Totally surprised considering everything else is superb about it.

I think the firewall is not well insulated. Something need to be done about it.

Apart from the noisy engine and the higher than expected price, this is THE car in this segment...

Let me share you a story about "under-power" cars...

I've a friend living in the East Coast Pen. M'sia...
Quite successful in climbing the corporate ladder and business with personal earnings of roughly more than >+RM0.5M annually...

So, this guy used to drive/own Volvo, Merc, etc. and got a few SUV, 4x4, sedans, etc. in this garage...
Recently complained to me being "taxed" at +RM0.5M...
I already told him to buy stuff under Companies name, but yet he eagerly like to do it under personal... Just can't stand some people EGO... never the less, it's his money and I'm stuck with him as a friend... can't change that... huh.gif
Also got extra house... I mean... 2 houses... 1 in KL, other in East Coast... meaning ehem...

So, he was looking to buy a new car (selling off his old Merc) and asked for my assistant...
Since I know quite a some of SA's from different brands, we visit each one when he's in KL...

We tested the BMW E90 & E60 and he says... "quite not comfortable"... I smiled... thinking... mmmmm... dry.gif
One day, we drop by a C&C (Cycle & Carriage) Showroom...
Test-drove a Merc E200k (W211)...
His complain was..., "the engine sounds noisy, I don't like it"...
So, later, we do another visit to test-drive a Merc E230 V6 (W211) and he later bought one...
It was end of last year...

Now he's coming back to me as reference again...
We visit and did some test drives again, BMW E90, Merc C250 CGi, Audi A4, VW Golf GTI/ Scirocco...
I asked him..., "this car for who"..? He said... "for my just newly graduated son"... or is it for his 2nd. ehem... dry.gif
(Another story... take the 2nd. ehem and him to Mazda, and during leaving the Showroom I asked the 2nd. ehem... "Don't u want to test-drive the car..? and she answered... "Not my taste"... WOW... nice answer... ohmy.gif

Moral of the story is..., if some people complain that the 2.0L new Sonata got noisy engine rev, then buy the 2.4L version...
If they still complain... don't buy at all...
Because people with money, don't complain... they just "buy" what they want... laugh.gif
My 2 cents...
Courtesy:
iMotorMy...