[tazztham]

hi johan,

the problem here is getting to change ATF oil and fill up to the proper
level is a challenge for our local service center. example the ulysse
gearbox is 'meant' to filled for life and proper way of changing ATF is
unclear. once change or top up, it need to reset/set the ATF counter in
order to avoid error code. i am not sure what is that but it seems the
gearbox is too "intelligence" for us our local sc to understand.

if there is a sensor to monitor the ATF condition, as long as there is
not error, isn't it means o.k.? too much complication...

for sure local sc will as for ATF change on their recommended schedule.

[bm_dp]

Tazz, John,
I agree with both your conclusions about the effects of our weather on the
oils in our cars here. Heat is the biggest problem for continental cars in
our climate.

As for the AL4 GB, there is no fan. There is only a heat exchanger, cooled
by the engine coolant (which spend its time mostly around 85 to 95C. How
much cooling effect is that, you can make a educated guess. What would be
a good mod, I believe, is a ATF cooler. Looking for one now...

As for the oil wear indicator counter, with the right diagnostic software
(like in C&C I suppose), you can get it reset. But thats a Non-Fiat SC.
They probably don't even want to touch other makes.

Bottom line, flush it every X,000 kM. That should work for at least the
life time of you car (or the life time of your ownership).

[tazztham]

hi bm,

i just checked with a 2003 Ulysse model. generally, 2.0 16V Ulysse does
has gearbox problem. it is not the whole unit but some solenoid actuator
problem. he got the problem after 2 yr using (mileage below 30K). since
it is the same as 807 & C8, he went to Naza service center where the
technician told him that some how ulysse using old type of solenoid and
program too. of course they don't have the fiat computer to check. what
the guy did somehow, is download a 807 program and totally flash his
ulysse program. it is a daring job but he is happy with it...

[johanbrian]

if naza can do that i reckon u guys shud just follow suit then. wat i
heard is that torino sells the same solenoid valves at a much higher
price than ones sold for the citreon. how true is this?

[bm_dp]

I have also been told before that for my version the ECU and TCU is
ot 'flashable', i.e. cannot upgrade program. Heard about the solenoids
solutions. It works for the newer ones like C8, Ulysse II and 807. The
replacement should be followed by the softwrae upgrade. Otherwise, it does
not work at all...more problematic.

Recent checks with T***** shows that their prices aren't too bad. Well, at
least for some. I guess, it alright for me if I cannot get it outside.
Some peace of mind that it will fit without surprise.

[zulfa]

hi,
this is history repeating itself. remember peugeot 406 with ZF 4HP20
gearbox. the gearbox oil was for life, sealed for life. later, about
200,000km, the gearbox fails. first , it wont go up to 4th gear, then until
1st gear ,the car won`t move.this is because the contaminated oil have
clogged the filter inside. the pressure is insufficient due to poor oil
condition.

most of the 1997 406 have this problem and the owners, most of them have
met the rm4k gearbox overhaul. then came AL4 gearbox.this gearbox is truly
french in design which is a joint venture between siemens,PSA and renault.
the AL4 gearbox first came to malaysia in the 206. then in 2001 to all the
16v automatic fiat ulysse and citroen evasion. then came 307,407,C5,C8,
ulysse II and 807. the latest should be citroen C3,C4,xsara picasso. i
reckon the new renault megane scenic, megane and laguna are also with AL4.
maybe proton waja 1.8 too.

so, this gearbox have plenty of application, even in malaysia. the D9
facelifted 406 also uses AL4, along with new EW10J4 engines. because the
gearbox problems are not localised, they do have problem in other countries
as well. what is advised at the moment is to change automatic transmission
oil every 40,000km.

for ZF gearbox, it is also known that they supplied to mercedes-benz, BMW,
jaguar, daimler and most other european cars. maybe we dont see the problem
from those merc or BMW owners, seldom see people who post about gearbox
problem. about aisin gearbox, they have problems as well. maybe it is
because our climate, very punitive to the automatic gear oil. maybe have to
return to purely 4-speed mechanical auto gearbox like in 405 or zx.have to
drive a manual then?

zulfa

[bm_dp]

Update. Its OK so far. Hasn't flashed anymore.

[bm_dp]

Updates. Flushed my GB at home. Yes, drain sump, pour in 3 litres and let
the it idle in "D" (both wheels on stands). Do this 2 times since after
the second time the oil looks quite clean or same as new oil. Before than
I put in Lubeguard ATF flush.

ATF used was Esso ATF D, yes its rated Dexron IID and not Dexron III. I
just want to tried it and see any difference (before was Tutela GI/E and
Esso LT71141). Esso ATF D seems a bit less smoother than the synthetic
ones I use before. After 2 days I added Lubeguard ATF Platinum. This is a
significant improvement after 200km of driving. It feels more like it the
synthetics (Esso LT 71141). I have been on this for about 2,500 kM already
or approximately 1.5 mths. Its still smooth now.

No more "Safe" or "Default" mode flashing on dashboard. Guess problem
solved for that one. Its an incorrectly filled ATF issue.

The Fiat owners manual only say Dexron II or Tutela GI/2. So yusing IID
should not be that bad. Off course using D-III would be much better.
Anyone care to share your thoughts about this ATF thingy? Appreciate your
inputs. If you think that this is really a bad idea to do please feedback.
Thanks.

[bm_dp]

Just add, recently about 500km back, I did a atf drain thru the level
adjustment nut and I took out about 450ml (due to overfill previously).
The oil still look OK redish and transparent and not like balck dark
thicken or whatever. So i reckon that it should be doing OK in there.

[bm_dp]

Did a flush of the GB. Drain out the Esso ATF D and put in LT71141 as per
OEM recommendation. The ATF D even though, according to spec says a very
close to LT71141, I believe its quite different. After 2500km, my
conclusion of ATF D is that is not that good at all for AL4 (even with
Lubeguard Platinuum), my shifting from 2nd to 3rd is not as good as before
and shifting from 3rd to 4th seems to be delayed a bit (getting more and
more).

However, I felt that Lubeguard gives a certain smoothness in the GB. Can
really quantify this but you know it if yo drive it.

So far this morning, shifting from 2nd to 3rd is better (less thud sound)
and the delayed shifting from 3rd to 4th is also lesser but still there.
May after a couple of hundred kms it should wear-in.

Anyone else who would like to share experiences?