[jayraptor]

I don't even know why you bother reading the thrash on the news stands. I gave up a long time ago but did glance through the same review yesterday while waiting for someone.

A comparison that does not take into account the retail prices of the cars in the comparison, is not worth commenting on. Any car buyer worth his salt would immediately take prices into consideration. If he/she doesn't, then obviously money is not an issue to them and therefore, comparisons are also not what they would read.

People who read comparisons do care about pricing.

Hi Kevin,

Not really all carbuyers have the curiousity to learn things about cars and find out the capabilities themselves. Many would just follow carmags and majority for guides in buying cars. These biased car journalists probably infected by T, H & N brand through special favour would always give negative reviews to other brand cars that are better and superior that would threaten T, H & N brands. Based on analysis, the journalists are being made biased by certain party placing N as first priority followed by H and then T brands.

Their mission is to help spread negative remarks/rumours scaring off buyers of other brands so that they'll stick to N, H and then T brands. Many indeed influenced by car mags and these virus would just bypass showrooms such as Hyundai/Kia, Ford, Chevy, etc and jump straight to T, H and also N brands make/models before deciding which to buy.


Hi Gunner,

Ever since you came back from Lightfoot Contest, you seems to be INFECTED just like other journalists. Probably you are getting what they got too from certain parties. Yes, tally with your experiences because you are INFECTED just like them to be BIASED and starting to write carefully rather than giving TRUE & FAIR VIEW.

What concensus have those INFECTED journalists ever made on getting actual FC of cars they tested? They don't even allowed or know how to empty tank and fill up certain amount of fuel to drive till finish in order to get proper recording. Even the Sylphy that you have driven have been modified with special fuel tank and you took just the reading from nozzle that can be fooled with untouched fuel tank. In reality and truly tested, Sylphy is getting normal FC only when compared to other brands. Can't even get more than 12km/L on our roads except 1 or 2 times when in Ulu areas that don't have much traffic.

Do you know what is underpower? Pulling power (torque) is the actual thing that is dragging the car body around whereas horsepower (output) is mainly for speed and acceleration. If you have weight of 1390kg powered by 1.8L, with 140hp will not get you to 100km/h in 10s, usually in 11+s. Its torque of 176Nm@3800rpm is adequate enough to pull the car around without feeling lagging. If you wanted to know what underpower means, go try out Honda City and Accord. But I don't think you even know what is lagging. Lagging means you push pedal to 2000 at starting, it feels weak to propel the car forward from 0-60km/h then to 80km/h and will require more RPM at 3000rpm or more. This is LAGGING!!

Sylphy weighs even lighter than most 1.8L C-segment, sure can get to 100km/h in 10.7s. Mat rempit RXZ could outrun anycar because of very light weight compared to cars. I can even get a 2.0L car from 90's with 0.32cd that could reach 100km/h in 10s defeating current Civic 1.8L with 0.26cd because of less weight and less height. If the Sylphy has weight of Cruze at 1390kg, do you think you can still get 10.7s? It'll be even worst, probably at 12+s because of its height. Accord 2.0 could reach 100km/h in 12s compared to Camry. Do you want to say Accord is underpowered too? You probably know and yet you use the Cruze 11.5s to spread false rumours that it is underpowered.

Rear legroom of Sylphy is big indeed but wasted and not being utilised especially with that cheap dining chair rear seats with upright position. I supposed to reply you on last Sunday but I got 2 of the tallest colleagues, at 6'3" and 6' to try out the Sylphy, Altis, Forte, City and Civic rear seats 1st. Yesterday, AW seems to have barred me from login. These 6 footers gave poorest score on City and Civic with their heads no place to put while Sylphy still require their heads to bend sideways if sit according to its dining chair post. Or they could choose to sit at wrong position that could get serious neck & back pain to use the big legroom. They gave best score to Forte followed by Altis. Yes, the Forte that Autocar journalists said Forte cabin is smaller and also the Altis that have poorest cabin space.

Tried with normal full size adults with height between 5'6"-5'8", these are measurement from rear passenger's head to ceiling.
1) Forte's headroom is 85-90mm
2) Altis's headroom is 80-82mm
3) Sylphy - 50-55mm
4) Civic - 10-12mm
5) City - 5-10mm
Cruze's headroom is similar to Altis. Telling you is useless as you would ignore blindly or prefer to close 1 eye. Sylphy does not even have proper footrest and the pertruding centre console is bad for your knee, might hit hard if you jump into the driver's seat during emergency. Other C-segments have proper footrest that you can rest and lean on. Didn't know that you like dining chair style rear seats. I don't think you even sit behind for long journey coz you are mostly the driver, why care about your rear passengers.

Sylphy handles well? It can't even handle better than Wira and several old cars. Maybe easily getting into understeer with high bodyroll when cornering at speed that most cheap cars can do is considered good to you. Hitting hard on the deck from the rear suspension when going over humps at slightly higher speed whereas others don't have such problem at that speed is considered comfortable to you too?

Those awards link you gave are nothing mere than simply put new cars on the winner list. Craps and rubbish. Don't blame me, I don't show politeness to INFECTED journalists.

[TheGunner]

These biased car journalists probably infected by T, H & N brand through special favour would always give negative reviews to other brand cars that are better and superior that would threaten T, H & N brands.

Ever since you came back from Lightfoot Contest, you seems to be INFECTED just like other journalists. Probably you are getting what they got too from certain parties. Yes, tally with your experiences because you are INFECTED just like them to be BIASED and starting to write carefully rather than giving TRUE & FAIR VIEW.

Hi jay,

Thanks for your feedback, though I'm somewhat saddened that my integrity is called into question. I can't speak for other journalists, but have you read my reviews of other brands as well? Do I always give a negative review to anything that does not wear a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan badge? And conversely, is a glowing review a given whenever those three brands are put to the test? Do furnish me with examples. You know how and where to find my stories.

What concensus have those INFECTED journalists ever made on getting actual FC of cars they tested? They don't even allowed or know how to empty tank and fill up certain amount of fuel to drive till finish in order to get proper recording. Even the Sylphy that you have driven have been modified with special fuel tank and you took just the reading from nozzle that can be fooled with untouched fuel tank. In reality and truly tested, Sylphy is getting normal FC only when compared to other brands. Can't even get more than 12km/L on our roads except 1 or 2 times when in Ulu areas that don't have much traffic.

With regards to the Lightfoot Quest, I still do not believe the Sylphy was modified, though your point of us not being able to empty the tank and drive that given amount of fuel to finish is a valid one. The control of the refueling process was also flawed in the sense that air bubbles in the fuel tank during the second refill would have caused the fuel filler to stop refueling before we reached the brim.

Also, we have stressed countless times that those figures are only reproduceable under very extreme competition conditions. All contestants of the event played by the same rules, so there is no cheating per se, but the figures themselves cannot be translated to day-to-day driving, and this fact was stressed in every article that I bothered to read.

Do you know what is underpower? Pulling power (torque) is the actual thing that is dragging the car body around whereas horsepower (output) is mainly for speed and acceleration. If you have weight of 1390kg powered by 1.8L, with 140hp will not get you to 100km/h in 10s, usually in 11+s. Its torque of 176Nm@3800rpm is adequate enough to pull the car around without feeling lagging. If you wanted to know what underpower means, go try out Honda City and Accord. But I don't think you even know what is lagging. Lagging means you push pedal to 2000 at starting, it feels weak to propel the car forward from 0-60km/h then to 80km/h and will require more RPM at 3000rpm or more. This is LAGGING!!

In the simplest terms, power gives you top speed while torque gives you acceleration. So a petrol-powered car would usually have higher top speed than an equivalent diesel, but won't pack the same punch when accelerating.

What is considered satisfactory for you might be very different than what is satisfactory for me. Even amongst journos, we don't usually agree on what we consider 'powerful' or 'underpowered' for the lack of better words.

Take Chips Yap and YS Khong for example, both individuals who command high levels of respect from me. There are times when my opinion differs from them, but does it make me wrong? No. Do I think they are wrong? No. Our opinions differ, and that is that.

You as a reader have every right to question the journalist's opinion, and in all honesty I welcome more readers like you to come forward and challenge us. However, you also need to remember at the end of the day we all have our opinions. In fact what I consider acceptable, is something you would consider as trash. Do I still stand by my opinion? Yes. Do I dismiss your input? No. Because you and I both have our respective stands on the matter.

Taking your examples with the Cruze, City, and Accord. I find them all satisfactory in terms of their power delivery.

[TheGunner]

You probably know and yet you use the Cruze 11.5s to spread false rumours that it is underpowered.

Please ar. I NEVER said the Cruze is underpowered. Don't attribute other people's comments to me. Re-read my Cruze story and find for me where in the article that I quoted the Cruze does 0-100kph in 11.5 seconds, and used that as a point to say it is underpowered.

As a matter of fact, I rarely discuss century sprints in my car reviews simply because I don't have the proper equipment to test these times myself.

Yesterday, AW seems to have barred me from login.

On a side note, we apologize for that. One of our advert platforms fell victim to hacker/malware attack and got the whole site, plus a few others blacklisted by Google. We have sorted the problem, and now waiting for Google and Firefox to de-list us.

Rear legroom of Sylphy is big indeed but wasted and not being utilised especially with that cheap dining chair rear seats with upright position. I supposed to reply you on last Sunday but I got 2 of the tallest colleagues, at 6'3" and 6' to try out the Sylphy, Altis, Forte, City and Civic rear seats 1st. Yesterday, AW seems to have barred me from login. These 6 footers gave poorest score on City and Civic with their heads no place to put while Sylphy still require their heads to bend sideways if sit according to its dining chair post. Or they could choose to sit at wrong position that could get serious neck & back pain to use the big legroom. They gave best score to Forte followed by Altis. Yes, the Forte that Autocar journalists said Forte cabin is smaller and also the Altis that have poorest cabin space.

Tried with normal full size adults with height between 5'6"-5'8", these are measurement from rear passenger's head to ceiling.
1) Forte's headroom is 85-90mm
2) Altis's headroom is 80-82mm
3) Sylphy - 50-55mm
4) Civic - 10-12mm
5) City - 5-10mm
Cruze's headroom is similar to Altis. Telling you is useless as you would ignore blindly or prefer to close 1 eye. Sylphy does not even have proper footrest and the pertruding centre console is bad for your knee, might hit hard if you jump into the driver's seat during emergency. Other C-segments have proper footrest that you can rest and lean on. Didn't know that you like dining chair style rear seats. I don't think you even sit behind for long journey coz you are mostly the driver, why care about your rear passengers.

As I said, earlier, your points are valid whether or not they agree with mine. It does not serve me any benefit to ignore your comments or turn a blind eye to them. If you think the Forte has the best headroom, all well and good. As an intelligent reader, you most definitely should have your own opinion on matters.

With regards to the seat material, the Sylphy's seat does look horrendous, but I took one on a trip to Penang and back, and nobody on board complained of discomfort or fatigue.

Interesting that you choose to mention about footrests - the Cruze does not have one.

Sylphy handles well? It can't even handle better than Wira and several old cars. Maybe easily getting into understeer with high bodyroll when cornering at speed that most cheap cars can do is considered good to you. Hitting hard on the deck from the rear suspension when going over humps at slightly higher speed whereas others don't have such problem at that speed is considered comfortable to you too?

Relative to my expectations of it, the Sylphy handles well enough. It won't outcorner even my Waja, if I'm to be honest, but ask yourself this, would a typical Sylphy buyer push this car to the point of understeer? No.

I don't rate the Sylphy highly on driving dynamics, but it's better than I thought it would be. You won't find me buying one for myself anytime soon, but for someone looking for a mode of transport that offers a good combination of space and refinement, the Sylphy remains a good package. Dull dashboard does not help its cause though.

Those awards link you gave are nothing mere than simply put new cars on the winner list. Craps and rubbish. Don't blame me, I don't show politeness to INFECTED journalists.

I welcome all feedback, good or bad. I only worry when there's NO feedback.

[stinger82]

you both gentlemen are doing a great job in educating forummers and sharing your knowledge. Keep up the good work and keep it as a friendly debate for the interest of everyone

Btw, test drives and reviews are something for the car buyers to use as a reference, but in real world, comments from friends, colleague, family members , to some extend mechanics/foreman and wife( the most important) usually carry more weight than magazines and forums.

cheers and have a nice day!

Btw, Jay and Gunner, have you guys compared Forte 2.0 Vs Cruze? found a comparison at oneshift.com. How do you think?

[TheGunner]

you both gentlemen are doing a great job in educating forummers and sharing your knowledge. Keep up the good work and keep it as a friendly debate for the interest of everyone

That's the idea. We want this to be an interactive forum

Btw, test drives and reviews are something for the car buyers to use as a reference, but in real world, comments from friends, colleague, family members , to some extend mechanics/foreman and wife( the most important) usually carry more weight than magazines and forums.

The most important input ultimately comes from the people who will live with the car. Ask yourself your priorities in getting a car and also how much budget you have to work with in terms of buying the car and maintaining it.

Reviews from journalists and other users give you a guideline on what to expect, but draw your conclusions after a proper test drive.

Btw, Jay and Gunner, have you guys compared Forte 2.0 Vs Cruze? found a comparison at oneshift.com. How do you think?

Me and many other fellow journalists are very keen to pit the Forte 2.0 against the Cruze, but guess what.... Naza has no Forte 2.0 test cars. Anybody willing to loan us one?

[jayraptor]

you both gentlemen are doing a great job in educating forummers and sharing your knowledge. Keep up the good work and keep it as a friendly debate for the interest of everyone

Btw, test drives and reviews are something for the car buyers to use as a reference, but in real world, comments from friends, colleague, family members , to some extend mechanics/foreman and wife( the most important) usually carry more weight than magazines and forums.

cheers and have a nice day!

Btw, Jay and Gunner, have you guys compared Forte 2.0 Vs Cruze? found a comparison at oneshift.com. How do you think?

Hi Stinger,

Unless Gunner bought the Forte 2.0, only then he could do direct comparison between the 2. As long as it's not the T, H & N brands involved, I'm sure Gunner will still be himself and provide accurate readings/measurement/evaluation.

Back then, journalists were so professionals that they would evaluate the car after taking down all sorts of readings and measurement from each and every angle. They tried out the car as like manufacturer preparing complete specifications including those that are not meant to be shown on catalogues.
- FC drive till finish at certain RPM, acceleration, performance, handling, bodyroll with or without full loads of passengers and cargo
- bring along cargo to try out boots and giving car loads
- always pack cars with 1 person at every seat
- NVH test, bring along desible meter noise to take down (dB) noise reading in cabin,

They did so well that the carmagazines that you bought deserved the price with review that is so complete that you can use it for guide. No such thing as getting infected by carmaker. No such thing as added own opinion and biased. What they got from reading is what they described.

Hi Gunner,

I am not targeting you. I am targeting all INFECTED car journalists from various car magazines. Not even Singaland spared as the infection spreads that far down south. This what I call dirty business tactic from KIASU brands distributors here & Singaland that have been monopoly the car market.

The Forte 2.0L is selling like hotcakes worldwide that there is waiting list of 2 months time. Customers priority first so Naza would rather reserved the available stocks for buyers rather than keeping a 2.0L for test unit. Less likely you can get it. Maybe next year.

[TheGunner]

Unless Gunner bought the Forte 2.0, only then he could do direct comparison between the 2. As long as it's not the T, H & N brands involved, I'm sure Gunner will still be himself and provide accurate readings/measurement/evaluation.

I state with a clear conscience that I subject all test cars to the same standards. I do adjust my expectations of each car based on the respective vehicle's specifications, design philosophy, type, etc.

For example, the Nissan Sylphy and the Peugeot 308 are both cars of similar price and class, but I do have different expectations of them. For the Sylphy, I have higher expectations of its comfort levels, refinement and interior space, whilst for a more enthusiast-oriented model like the 308, my focus shifts to driving dynamics and performance.

Comparison test is something I love doing, but haven't done for a long time due to the logistics involved in coordinating the simultaneous loans of multiple test cars, photography work etc.

Back then, journalists were so professionals that they would evaluate the car after taking down all sorts of readings and measurement from each and every angle. They tried out the car as like manufacturer preparing complete specifications including those that are not meant to be shown on catalogues.
- FC drive till finish at certain RPM, acceleration, performance, handling, bodyroll with or without full loads of passengers and cargo
- bring along cargo to try out boots and giving car loads
- always pack cars with 1 person at every seat
- NVH test, bring along desible meter noise to take down (dB) noise reading in cabin,

Being only a year into the industry, I can't say what was it like 'back then'. Neither can I speak for what goes on in other publications

These days, we are usually given 3-4 days to evaluate one test car. Balancing the test driving of these cars, and also our commitments to attend events and keep the website up-to-date means that effectively, we only have a certain number of hours with any given test car.

What you described is ideally how a car should be properly evaluated. It is, in all honesty, how I would like to evaluate the test cars that come our way. But we don't have a dB meter to take noise levels, we may or may not get enough people to pack each test car every time (though I did pack 7 into my Alza test car and drove it down to Muar).

Another point for you to consider is that most Malaysian motoring editorial teams tend to consist of no more than 2 or 3 writers - CBT and paultan.org are notable exceptions. Usually a test car that comes our way, is handled from start to finish by one person.

Hi Gunner,

I am not targeting you. I am targeting all INFECTED car journalists from various car magazines. Not even Singaland spared as the infection spreads that far down south. This what I call dirty business tactic from KIASU brands that have been monopoly the car market.

I am not taking your comments personally. I address them as valid feedback from our readers, which I very much treasure. Of course, you won't expect me to sit down and say nothing if my credibility is being questioned, right?

[Kevin]

I just want to say that The Gunner is not on my journalist blacklist One of the rare few I might add.

[TheGunner]

I just want to say that The Gunner is not on my journalist blacklist One of the rare few I might add.

Thanks!

[stinger82]

yup, i think there's still room for improvement for malaysian car journalist.

For example, the taiwan mag will do a test so thorough, that, they will check for viewing angle from driver seat, sound level meter, GPS for century sprint etc. And they are very transparent with their test route, and also century sprint time. But i guess its just different way of doing stuff. But there's a lot to read for taiwan car mag like spec r, option and so on. Some singapore car mag started to sell in malaysia too. Competition is a good sign