[drexchan]

Taken from:
http://wmjpatriot.bl...ot_archive.html

==========================================================================
Thanks Paklah for backing proton…

Terlebih dahulu...saya nak bagitau yg saya org baru...tetapi dah beberapa
hari melayari laman web ini...cuma pada hari ini saya terpanggil utk
menyatakan perasaan saya berkenaan proton. Harap kehadiran saya diterima.

Assalamualaikum.. (Terlebih dahulu memohon maaf kerana tulisan saya ini
agak panjang dan saya berharap agar sahabat-sahabat dapat membacanya dgn
hati yg terbuka… dan saya amat berharap agar ianya dapat dibaca dgn
teliti.)

Saya amat gembira bila membaca berita dalam utusan yg kerajaan akan terus
menjaga proton. Tak tahulah knp, tapi saya begitu sensitive dan emosional
bila bercakap pasal proton. Ini mungkin bagi saya ataupun sememangnya
proton bukanlah sekadar lambang Negara…tetapi ianya adalah lambang bangsa
melayu . Ini adalah kerana diantara matlamat asal proton diujudkan oleh
Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad adalah untuk meningkatkan penguasaan/penglibatan
BUMIPUTRA dalam industri berat yang berteknologi tinggi. Atas sebab
inilah terdapat beberapa golongan/bangsa yang begitu benci dgn proton dan
mereka sebenarnya mengharapkan projek kereta nasional (proton) ini gagal
dan berkubur. Pada masa yg sama saya juga heran dan ingin mengetahui,
bila masa Tun Mahathir memikirkan mengenai projek ini ? kerana, beliau
menjadi perdana menteri pada tahun 1981, dan projek proton ini bermula
pada tahun 1983 dan menghasilkan produk pertamanya pada tahun 1985. Ini
bermakna projek ini bermula kurang dari 2 tahun usia Tun Mahathir sbg
perdana menteri. Apa lagi… semakin kuatlah keyakinan satu golongan ini
bahawa Mahathir ini adalah Ultra Melayu (spt yg disebut oleh Mentor
mereka Lee Kuan Yew)…

Sebelum ini , saya begitu aktif di dalam sebuah forum yg berkaitan dgn
kereta…. dimana dalam forum ini, topic perbincangan adalah berkenaan
kereta dan ada juga satu bahagian berkenaan `Non Motor Talk`… iaini
perbincangan bukan kereta. Ingin saya maklumkan disini bahawa majority
pengunjung di laman web ini adalah bangsa cina. Okay sepanjang saya
involve dalam forum ini, saya selalu (boleh dikatakan berhari-hari) saya
berperang dgn mereka, bermula semenjak saya bekerja sbg Engineer di
syarikat multinasional sehinggalah saya berhijrah ke academician, saya
masih lagi terus berperang…Cuma sekarang saya tidak lagi melayari laman
web tersebut sbb saya dapati ianya membazir masa …..

Apa yg buat saya berperang ? Ini adalah kerana mereka disana sentiasa
mengutuk proton dan sentiasa mengutuk bangsa melayu dan kerajaan. Apa yg
dikatakan oleh mereka, adalah proton adalah satu projek yg sia-sia dan
hanya utk menunjuk-nunjuk bahawa melayu boleh berjaya dalam teknologi
kejuruteraan tinggi… dan mrk sering berkata bahawa proton tak akan
berjaya sbb proton diplopori oleh melayu. Mrk mempersoalkan tentang
protection yg diberikan oleh kerajaan kpd proton, mrk persoalkan kpd
kuota penglibatan bumiputra dalam proton vendor, mrk mempersoalkan R&D
proton, mereka mempersoalkan ketidak adilan proton, mereka mempersoalkan
kesengsaraan rakyat krn terpaksa membeli kereta yg mahal dsb… Kesemua
dakwaan ini saya jawab satu persatu kpd mrk.

Mereka mengatakan yg proton di protect selama 20 tahun tetapi masih
ditahap yg sama dan masih berkualiti teruk. Saya menyangkal dakwaan ini
sambil mengambil contoh terdekat…korea ! company spt Hyundai dan Kia di
protect oleh kerajaan korea selama 40 tahun dan walaupun korea telah
membuka pasaran automotif mrk, tetapi protection secara halus masih
berlaku…. Protection cara halus ini berlaku dgn cara rakyat mrk yg
membeli kereta bukan keluaran korea akan di audit dgn ketat utk cukai
pendapatan dan akan dipandang sbg tak setia kpd negara… oleh sbb itu jgn
terperanjat kalau di korea pasaran kereta import yg jauh lebih baik hanya
tak sampai 10%...selebihnya dimonopoli oleh kereta tempatan ?
Persoalannya, dgn protection itu yg lebih lama…R3àÛ
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dS3ty had taken few steps backwards these 2 years, although\nthey are now hard at work fixing it back. BMW sports weird design that put\noff many buyers, although their sixers are the smoothest of all. \n\nWhere these two giant Germans failed, Audi sneaked through and blow their\nhead off!\n\nThe DSG gearbox is just phenomenal, not even the SMG can come close. The\nquattro system, well it has already been a legend, enough said. \n\nAt the least, it is nice to know, Merc S-class, is still what a S-class\nshould be. Beemer has lots of work (or at the least bodyworks) to do.\n\nHowever in Bolehland, expect the Beemers and Merc monopolised all the\nexpensive cars category. For one, the badge value is darn too high for Audi\nto take on. \n\nBesides, not many Malaysian knows what a quattro is or DSG is. As long as\nit is a Merc or Beemers, that is all they want to know. Besides for many,\nthe decision to move to these two germans are purely to signify that they\nhad made it, rather to enjoy the driving dynamics of the car. When you hear\nthem argue about which is better, they simply point out the price tag. For\nthe senile, the pricing (and the badge) dictates which is the better car. \n\nOnce again, Malaysia Boleh!!!\nsimplYðINSERT INTO ibf_posts (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143407', '', '34581', 'aspire', '218.111.60.235','1120779805', '71900', 'premium compact sedan shootout', '0', 'aspire', 'b7ce857f13e8072c2eaaccedf76f8405', '13748', 'Merc\'s famous quality had taken few steps backwards these 2 years, although\nthey are now hard at work fixing it back. BMW sports weird design that put\noff many buyers, although their sixers are the smoothest of all. \n\nWhere these two giant Germans failed, Audi sneaked through and blow their\nhead off!\n\nThe DSG gearbox is just phenomenal, not even the SMG can come close. The\nquattro system, well it has already been a legend, enough said. \n\nAt the least, it is nice to know, Merc S-class, is still what a S-class\nshould be. Beemer has lots of work (or at the least bodyworks) to do.\n\nHowever in Bolehland, expect the Beemers and Merc monopolised all the\nexpensive cars category. For one, the badge value is darn too high for Audi\nto take on. \n\nBesides, not many Malaysian knows what a quattro is or DSG is. As long as\nit is a Merc or Beemers, that is all they want to know. Besides for many,\nthe decision to move to these two germans are purely to signify that they\nhad made it, rather to enjoy the driving dynamics of the car. When you hear\nthem argue about which is better, they simply point out the price tag. For\nthe senile, the pricing (and the badge) dictates which is the better car. \n\nOnce again, Malaysia Boleh!!!\n','aspire@1');p^Y0g
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dS3that fancies your taste later when you are successful. _crlA INSERT INTO ibf_posts (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143317', '', '32749', 'SexyThang', '211.29.210.214','1104943378', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'SexyThang', '5ebb20942e654d3d80bd9332fc62532b', '12507', 'Doesnt really matter where its from. If you like it, means you like it. \nHate it means you hate it. However you need to take into consideration \nthere are some continentals that arent worth owning, same for jap makes or \nkorean for taht matter. So you\'d have to choose between models from \ndifferent companies and decide which one you like best and you can afford, \nand would give you the best driving experience for the price you pay. \n\nAlso gota look from the companies perspective. Some companies are good at \nbuilding cars but are just not doing the right things to make money. Lotus \nmight fit into this catergory. Some companies are crap at building cars but \nare making tons of money (well at least 5-10 years ago). i.e proton and \nholden. Other companies build good cars and sell alot of these cars. Only \none i can think of that is on the top is Toyota. But it is not to say the \nbest car to buy is a toyota. Personally a ferrari modena is a pretty sexy \ncar to own. Some jap makes are equally beautiful and a joy to ride. but for \nnow better stick to any affordable make you can.....then move on the other \nexpensive cars that fancies your taste later when you are successful. ','SexyThang@1');!\n\nhØWAÈm
Èm
dS3!!!¸Waèm
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dS3s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143316', '', '41048', 'aeewantu26', '218.111.157.33','1103683850', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'aeewantu26', '9714df9734d14023aa41f579cabdc439', '12506', 'hi cire,\n\n\ni agree with ur statement;\n\n<<The amount of modifying a Jap car to feel and drive like a conti,IMHO \nis \nnot possible. But to build one, yes>>\n\nb\'cos they eyeing on different market sector. the european car maker is \ngoing for the high end market, doesn\'t mean that they do not know how to \nmake jap-like cars, the other way round, doesn\'t mean that the jap \ndoesn\'t know how to make comfortable cars.\n\nthe same thing; the \"kwai low\" make the car so comfi, change their model \nnot so often, how do they make money??? the answer is by producing \"more \nexpensive \" parts, they make their money even after sales. so u need to \npay for high maintanence.\n\non the other hand, the japs wanta \"jaga\" their \"nama\". so they \nproduce \"reliable\" and cheaper cars not so much comfi gadgets. how they \nmake money if the car so reliable??.......they change model and facelift \nmore often lor...to make ur car looks old faster lor.....so u change car \nmore often lor.\n\nanyway....what u pay is what u get, \"kwai low\" or japs also wanta make \nmoney. u thik \"kwai low\" dunno how to make reliable cars? but they did \nsent human to moon. u thik japs dunno how to build a rolls royces? they \ndid take down pearl harbour.\n\nthe only thing is different marketing strategies.\n\nthanks!\n\nhave a nice holidays seasons!!!!','aeewantu26@1');ØPáÈt
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dS3, '', '16490', 'nocar', '202.188.127.61','1102397434', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'nocar', 'c6ba91253d32402c7f03c4786b7cd035', '12431', 'back to original topic guys!\n\nFor me, conti car does not reflect the owner status anymore except those \nwho enjoy high brand consciousness of prestige such as BMW, MB, Ferrari, \nAston Martin, LAmbo etc.... The rest is just simply a car. Why it is \nhigher price than Japs can be due to low volume imported to Malaysia, \nhigh Euro currency etc. Fiat represents prestige to the owners??? Hahaha.\n\nI perceived that the conti owners don\'t mind on the high price of their \ncars and the hassle of maintaining them. I\'ve a cousin who owns a Renault \nand keeps a list of workshops that can fix Renault from KL to his kampung \nin Perak.... the list not even half a page and most of them in KL and \nIpoh. Do you need such list if you own a Jap? Not likely. He still love \nhis Megane and still has the list. Until the after-sales support for \nconti-makes is improved, it is harder for me to think of owning one even \nif i can pay cash for it. Still, Alfa 156 looks sexy to me. yummy!\n\nWe have our own priorities. I\'ve seen a lot of ppl with \'prestigious\' \nconti and \'expensive\' japs cars but still renting a house for the family. \nThere are instances that the car is much more expensive than the house. \nCould you blame them of their choices? It\'s their money and preference, \nbut I pity their family.','nocar@1');
lant. ØJ©Èz
Èz
dS3from 1986 I drove for 2 years only \nfailed to start once when the weather was -30F oh yes this Volvo had 293k \nMiles on the odometer. \n\nSo in my experience.. the contis had held up far better than japs. \n\nNow I drive a Hyundai Matrix....not really by choice.... but if I had it \nmy way... I would very much like to have an Audi A3 or a VW Golf GTi. But \nreality is we got to live with whats within our budgets or given to us.x.Iù˜|
˜|
dS3but if I had it
my way... I would very much like to have an Audi A3 or a VW Golf GTi. But
reality is we got to live with whats within our budgets or given to us.8HÉh}
h}
dS3ose who doesn\'t tolerate bodyache, they don\'t mind \ntolerating some heart-ache or headache\n\nJaps - for people who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s \nno headache or heart-ache\n\nCheers \n\n','LGX@1');

INSERT INTO ibf_posts (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143260', '', '36373', 'LGX', '202.190.191.31','1101346964', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'LGX', '9b7d69fb4a274e8f4643f0df86b5c565', '12363', 'quoted from Cire, \n\n>>>\"...Don\'t send a conti car to an inexperience mechanic. The visit \ncould do more harm than good. \nWhen you have eyed yourself a conti that you very much like to own, check \nout the clubs or forums for that car make concerned. \nIt may be a worthwhile chit-chat with the owners of the makes to find out \nwhat are the pros and cons of owing the car/make. \n\nBefore I got my Audi, I checked out all possible problems that the make \nhas and visiting AW VAG forums to chat with owners and likes. \nI visited the workshops even. ...\"<<<\n\n\nPrior to purchasing the conti that I once had, an even at the earliest \nstage of planning to \'convert\', I did exactly the above (as always prior \nto purchasing any car); checked out forums and e-mailed owners \npersonally, chatted with the recommended mechanics, visited some of them, \nchatted with owners I didn\'t even know if I bump into them somewhere as \npart of fact-finding-survey, printed a list of trustable mechanics, \nbrought a mechanic to view the car that I bought... but still ... \n\nMy bro-in-law did similar thing, got in touch with Pug club etc etc , \nwent to reputable mechanic, and still ...\n\n\nAlfamaniac,\n\nwith everyone left and right banging the Japanese for its ride \ndiscomfort, mainly contributed by the seats, you are saying the total \nopposite .\nWell, the suspension may be soft for comfort but if the seats aren\'t, the \nend result would still be - discomfort; at least that\'s how I see it\n\nAnd I know it\'ll be a really big sin to say contis don\'t provide comfort, \ncoz they provide both ...handling and comfort, whatever...\n\n\nanother way to summarize ...\n\nContis - for those who doesn\'t tolerate bodyache, they don\'t mind \ntolerating some heart-ache or headache\n\nJaps - for people who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s \nno headache or heart-ache\n\nCheers \n\n','LGX@1');rl 
´R3´R3ple who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s
no headache or heart-ache

Cheers

rthwh™ quoted from Cire, \n\n>>>\"...Don\'t send a conti car to an inexperience mechanic. The visit \ncould do more harm than good. \nWhen you have eyed yourself a conti that you very much like to own, check \nout the clubs or forums for that car make concerned. \nIt may be a worthwhile chit-chat with the owners of the makes to find out \nwhat are the pros and cons of owing the car/make. \n\nBefore I got my Audi, I checked out all possible problems that the make \nhas and visiting AW VAG forums to chat with owners and likes. \nI visited the workshops even. ...\"<<<\n\n\nPrior to purchasing the conti that I once had, an even at the earliest \nstage of planning to \'convert\', I did exactly the above (as always prior \nto purchasing any car); checked out forums and e-mailed owners \npersonally, chatted with the recommended mechanics, visited some of them, \nchatted with owners I didn\'t even know if I bump into them somewhere as \npart of fact-finding-survey, printed a list of trustable mechanics, \nbrought a mechanic to view the car that I bought... but still ... \n\nMy bro-in-law did similar thing, got in touch with Pug club etc etc , \nwent to reputable mechanic, and still ...\n\n\nAlfamaniac,\n\nwith everyone left and right banging the Japanese for its ride \ndiscomfort, mainly contributed by the seats, you are saying the total \nopposite .\nWell, the suspension may be soft for comfort but if the seats aren\'t, the \nend result would still be - discomfort; at least that\'s how I see it\n\nAnd I know it\'ll be a really big sin to say contis don\'t provide comfort, \ncoz they provide both ...handling and comfort, whatever...\n\n\nanother way to summarize ...\n\nContis - for those who doesn\'t tolerate bodyache, they don\'t mind \ntolerating some heart-ache or headache\n\nJaps - for people who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s \nno headache or heart-ache\n\nCheers \n\n... a6™ �
 �
`S3', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'LGX', '9b7d69fb4a274e8f4643f0df86b5c565', '12363', 'quoted from Cire, \n\n>>>\"...Don\'t send a conti car to an inexperience mechanic. The visit \ncould do more harm than good. \nWhen you have eyed yourself a conti that you very much like to own, check \nout the clubs or forums for that car make concerned. \nIt may be a worthwhile chit-chat with the owners of the makes to find out \nwhat are the pros and cons of owing the car/make. \n\nBefore I got my Audi, I checked out all possible problems that the make \nhas and visiting AW VAG forums to chat with owners and likes. \nI visited the workshops even. ...\"<<<\n\n\nPrior to purchasing the conti that I once had, an even at the earliest \nstage of planning to \'convert\', I did exactly the above (as always prior \nto purchasing any car); checked out forums and e-mailed owners \npersonally, chatted with the recommended mechanics, visited some of them, \nchatted with owners I didn\'t even know if I bump into them somewhere as \npart of fact-finding-survey, printed a list of trustable mechanics, \nbrought a mechanic to view the car that I bought... but still ... \n\nMy bro-in-law did similar thing, got in touch with Pug club etc etc , \nwent to reputable mechanic, and still ...\n\n\nAlfamaniac,\n\nwith everyone left and right banging the Japanese for its ride \ndiscomfort, mainly contributed by the seats, you are saying the total \nopposite .\nWell, the suspension may be soft for comfort but if the seats aren\'t, the \nend result would still be - discomfort; at least that\'s how I see it\n\nAnd I know it\'ll be a really big sin to say contis don\'t provide comfort, \ncoz they provide both ...handling and comfort, whatever...\n\n\nanother way to summarize ...\n\nContis - for those who doesn\'t tolerate bodyache, they don\'t mind \ntolerating some heart-ache or headache\n\nJaps - for people who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s \nno headache or heart-ache\n\nCheers \n\n',è-¸—
¸—
`S3ache

Japs - for people who doesn\'t mind a bit of bodyache as long as there\'s
no headache or heart-ache

Cheers

tis a-鈘
ˆ˜
`S3drive, to enjoy the handling,\ncomfort etc whatever\n\n>>Japs are here to stay if you need serious transportation needs\n\nAnd this statement is just my opinion as someone who has owned national \ncars, contis and Japs\n\nAs far as I am concerned, no more contis for me, thanks\n\n\nPeace, people rs c‰ð=I have owned a 1992 Honda Civic 1.5EX(M) (SR4) as my first car, \nsubsequently graduating to a 1997 Honda Accord 2.0EXi(A) (SV4/CE7), then \nbought a 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 Selespeed with the Accord relegated to second \ncar status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001 \nBMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were \nbought new.\n\nFrom my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of \nquality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa \n(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very \noften) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The \nHondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So, \nperhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better \nmade than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least \nmechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this \nrespect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also \nproblematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were \nnever rendered immobile.\n\nOn the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are \nleagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and \nstill has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too \nand is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring. \nBoth the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas. \n\nHowever, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be \npointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my \nBMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.\n\nAs for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental \nhave resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes \nit simpler to arrive at decisions... \n\nSo when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car \nwith Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like \nthe Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a \nstretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...\nell-mað ‰`¢
`¢
XS3s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143242', '', '22865', 'wglee', '218.111.149.103','1100916179', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'wglee', 'bbcebff85fce7d2d194a63bfc2d57556', '12329', 'I have owned a 1992 Honda Civic 1.5EX(M) (SR4) as my first car, \nsubsequently graduating to a 1997 Honda Accord 2.0EXi(A) (SV4/CE7), then \nbought a 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 Selespeed with the Accord relegated to second \ncar status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001 \nBMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were \nbought new.\n\nFrom my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of \nquality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa \n(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very \noften) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The \nHondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So, \nperhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better \nmade than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least \nmechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this \nrespect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also \nproblematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were \nnever rendered immobile.\n\nOn the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are \nleagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and \nstill has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too \nand is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring. \nBoth the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas. \n\nHowever, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be \npointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my \nBMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.\n\nAs for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental \nhave resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes \nit simpler to arrive at decisions... \n\nSo when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car \nwith Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like \nthe Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a \nstretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...\n',at \nGeù hPINSERT INTO ibf_posts (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143242', '', '22865', 'wglee', '218.111.149.103','1100916179', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'wglee', 'bbcebff85fce7d2d194a63bfc2d57556', '12329', 'I have owned a 1992 Honda Civic 1.5EX(M) (SR4) as my first car, \nsubsequently graduating to a 1997 Honda Accord 2.0EXi(A) (SV4/CE7), then \nbought a 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 Selespeed with the Accord relegated to second \ncar status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001 \nBMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were \nbought new.\n\nFrom my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of \nquality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa \n(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very \noften) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The \nHondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So, \nperhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better \nmade than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least \nmechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this \nrespect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also \nproblematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were \nnever rendered immobile.\n\nOn the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are \nleagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and \nstill has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too \nand is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring. \nBoth the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas. \n\nHowever, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be \npointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my \nBMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.\n\nAs for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental \nhave resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes \nit simpler to arrive at decisions... \n\nSo when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car \nwith Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like \nthe Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a \nstretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...\n','wglee@1');I teXù H¶
H¶
XS3s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143242', '', '22865', 'wglee', '218.111.149.103','1100916179', '71894', 'Oriental and Continental: Malaysian View', '0', 'wglee', 'bbcebff85fce7d2d194a63bfc2d57556', '12329', 'I have owned a 1992 Honda Civic 1.5EX(M) (SR4) as my first car, \nsubsequently graduating to a 1997 Honda Accord 2.0EXi(A) (SV4/CE7), then \nbought a 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 Selespeed with the Accord relegated to second \ncar status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001 \nBMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were \nbought new.\n\nFrom my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of \nquality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa \n(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very \noften) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The \nHondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So, \nperhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better \nmade than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least \nmechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this \nrespect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also \nproblematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were \nnever rendered immobile.\n\nOn the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are \nleagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and \nstill has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too \nand is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring. \nBoth the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas. \n\nHowever, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be \npointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my \nBMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.\n\nAs for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental \nhave resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes \nit simpler to arrive at decisions... \n\nSo when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car \nwith Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like \nthe Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a \nstretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...\n','wglee@1');
dl`ù @À
@À
ôe

also makes common buses, lorries, mini-vans and even small cars - is
not \"prestigious\" enough - afterall a bus driver can also say he\'s
driving a merc and so does a van driver - alongside a driver driving a
basic E200 merc.

it is ok to make profit but be realistic la.
eg vios price from 35k factory price sell at 81k market price how come?

factory price must be around RM15-20k only.So this toyol guys mark up
kaw2 until 35k!

if they declare ard RM25k then selling price should be ard RM60k

the dealers/importers here declare lower price to cut taxes but
declare higher prices when selling to customers blaming the G!
G also is to blame for their exorbitant taxes but dealers..aiyo,please la.
Dun add salt to the wound!
f all È
‰
ØÃ
ØÃ
ظ
(opps, already doing so),
Naza, Inokom etc.

Car ownership by way of monthly wage:
0- RM1000 - Boon Passo
1000-2000 - Avanza
2000-3000 - vios
3000-4000 - hilux
4000-5000 - innova
5000-6000 - altis
more than that - camry

Motorcycle to be given freely out for those against the policy - Locally
Taiwan made ones off course.

Those in the motor industry to be absorbed by SCs to work as pomens.

Cheers

À
y¸ihä
.i can switch it on...after auto off...no stanby/CD/radio mode...the
audio system is totally offhly
ðå
p!
yhE
y!I8
yS
(M
er, two colleagues
2. calenkl (5) - me, 4 colleagues..
3. ezze22 (1) - me (AW Forum really brainwashed me into NOT buying a
Proton, I got myself a 12 year old Toyota instead)
4.
-----------------
GRAND TOTAL = 9
-----------------

Read after purchase.

1. kinghamsap e;y8
@ˆ
he....jaga2 masa kopek sticker Felio tu..jangan sampai kena tangkap
dgn. tokey kedai potong tu.... ', 'yyiks01@1463853!2006-11-03 03:32:41.000!pÈ
no
$R3y(¤
3058807', '11854', 'accord timing belt putus', '0', 'hermuss', 'fbfbc73898b8ffdccb3d9eb2603f02fd', '61690'àyPÉ
PÉ
8-
s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143417', '', '13510', 'droll', '207.46.50.75','1106726733', '71901', 'Price increased during waiting period for new car', '0', 'droll', 'd7c3a95cdefbe1a078e0da44147bb2b3', '12794', 'actually it\'s the same for all dealers here. the booking fee is the right to a car - not the right to a fixed price. it\'s usu out of good will that the SA will give you the old price but legally speaking, he doesn\'t have to do that.\n\nnow i wonder what if the price went down since u booked....hmmmm!','droll@1');ar indu(¹Ñ$R3P

yàH™
ks....>´
(yinside got 50...

ldp ...kesas... sri hartamas tol... sprint tol...damansara tol.....

yyè3
2546488', '10805', 'Beware !! Kancil ADD 8609', '0', 'eddievh', '4f90dab4dccb2af27c203d33c1571b94', '6266yyx)
ve seen the bike today at Masjid India and its good looking. Hope its
performance is as good as its look.ˆy¨§
ˆ”
F
ˆ�
@
ì
p¢
ðß
0å
p,
˜í
HI
@
¸Û
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àÛ
p
p~
(´
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yˆ 4
src=\"http://202.157.189.199/forum/images/emoticons/smile_angry.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Angry\">
�yÐq
�„
146', '71899', 'Poll, what\'s next for Proton and TM?', '0', 'demanautic', '6f1e0e9287f791b6ab3f84999fbbd6b7', '12069', '''y�ðÿ
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_thumbup.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"ThumbUp\">u@
y8þ
8þ
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à�
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cs (tid, title, description, state, starter_id, starter_name, start_date, forum_id,topic_firstpost, old_UserID, pinned, approved) VALUES ('71901','Price increased during waiting period for new car', '', '', '43304', 'stevenlooi', '1104382897', '55','1143411', 'stevenlooi@1', '0', '1');
!
y@
Pï
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_thumbup.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"ThumbUp\">yy˜0
0293534', '10893', 'Gua Musang - Jeli, route 66', '0', 'Ardenz', '9af02cff0026f1e99572205400b1169b', '7794yyà[
7422553', '10928', 'Idiots never learn?', '0', 'Dar', 'a3e173b51698b77105a68faa9f0614b5', '4240', '
181897yy¸9
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_big.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Big Smile\">'áyy pal, but say twenty thousand pounds for these cars ain\'t exactly
cheap even if you are working there...not every one there drives a german car

and they are definitely not ...\"entry level vehicles\".....
¡áProtonion.?ed during waiting period for new car347', last_poster_name='npk',last_poster_userid='npk@1', last_poster_id='25453' WHERE tid='71775';y¡ 0
ks for the replies. will post in the correct forum in the future.

cheers,
wps '�yÀ]
H;
043', '71899', 'Poll, what\'s next for Proton and TM?', '0', 'AE101rulez', '03f10d39bb360fa1d760218c62a61aa8', '12391', 't?>y�à­
8566619', '11474', '2006 Civic VS Mazda3', '0', 'Ronk', 'f06da333ceffae76e632a03019bba6e0', '89880', ', '�y(¯
ÀT
een nominated for Man of the Year award again. What has he done \nin the past one year (or previous) to deserve that? that?'y�°L
0784881', '11605', '8th. Gen Honda Civic 2006', '0', 'heaveneart', '14a5fa017fe3c3f48b0465f68ef3abcf', '09yºßà­ô×
0‹
�†
8>
ÀJ
DepthP09,R3Èí
Õ J
yèJ
move. now u can settle summons online with credit card summore. dont
give money to these people.tyyXl
6872182', '54958', 'juara k-car?', '0', 'g88', '580e9f52b9fa495934347c4396d5a847', '121962', 'Really ?',,©yÈñ
t a gold color Accord. I saw a burned Accord on the Federal Highway
early this year. I was suprised that a car that new will actualy burn..',!!!y©˜
education prob then what? See ppl in SG and JPN. Do you think parents
there not busy? Why they Q?yÙïVB
1
$R3y€û
ably it is in their heads that beating the jam is considered
an \'emergency\' for themselves...'yyØ;
9867415', '68776', 'Modenas SC in Shah Alam ', '0', 'ugack', 'dde71a508fc8b4db2f649053b8f18449', '14492', '@yTR3ð/
creased during waiting period for new car8A@2§i“ÄÛ
(.
p,
(ª
À%
˜í
EditedDateq$R3ðå
yAhÈ
beli kat gombak..
skangg nie memang standard arr..
Mantizz on the road 4400..
ko round kat mana??
',)yyë
ard my fren there got spycam for speed trap at jalan mahameru to pj
under the kl sentral flyover..ÑyÀó
TM\'s should commit ritual suicide and Proton should be sold to the
highest bidder on the understanding there will be NO more public money
available to them either directly or indirectly.ionÀÑà+
ÔR3 singing, but TM was
supposed to be a marketing man but then he can say he has no \'professional
training\' in sales that explains why PROTON can\'t sell.yÀèç
9568997', '10889', 'Ghost at South-North Bound', '0', 'Twilight', '77cd7b9268c2a66de26c70291fb13d49', '4469Qyˆæ
ES ('71900','premium compact sedan shootout', '', '', '38762', 'yQð*
8217044', '10889', 'Ghost at South-North Bound', '0', 'y2j', 'f4f7c18c76e17d8be2d6b4c39d8a33ee', '4379', 'yyh9
a..benda yang nak sumbat masuk ke tayar..apa ke nama pun aku tak
tahu..aku panggil cacing je..'yy¸€
e u can try to ask at kedai potong moto or kedai botol... maybe they
can have it.. or find it at e-Bay...èyüR3üR3e stupid govt tax system that destroy our car industry. A4, 3 \nseries, C-class are entry level vehicles for goodness sake and they\'re \nsold darn cheap in the European countries. 
!Èstevenlooijaring.my
!è2008-11-04 18:22:23.000y!ÐF
2839938', '11160', 'speedtrap photo from Sri hartamas', '0', 'tpl', '39a802f06c3a8aa113b069c977f6ca3a', 'nyy°ô
src=\"http://203.115.193.189/forum/images/emoticons/smile_approve.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Approve\">,R3¸yÌR3àê
long ceo and perodue ceo look so stu*id with their production and \nstill happy with it...haizzzz.....this people may be have gone back to \nstone age..f]stone age..y¸àÙ
5239181', '10891', 'Gold Avanza BHN 2074', '0', 'cygnus', 'a6a8699b2913c6d8ed2d82d7a5379982', '7311', 'Q?IyIÐ&
0
û
$R3yH²
1528002', '10814', 'BFH 9917 accident !!!', '0', 'yokomo', '52be0a8c6c3356daa01c9efc834e0770', '2033', '6yyPº
ond n or anybody..

unable to join hcoc yahoo groups la..when can i get my pasword??R3P

9y&qyì<å
¸k
�
€
SenderorIP'!9�ø
111.233.194:27.000y!5
.. 928ypo

y`m
G,
how sure r u abt dis?...i dun think so ler..but d B16A2 is definitely not
a JDM engine..hehehehl tu.Qy,

Will latest AUDI\'s B7 eat the sales of BM
@à
!QÐÓ
-01-24 17:43:21.000y!x¥
src=\"http://202.157.189.199/forum/images/emoticons/smile_approve.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Approve\">
yyPò
1948928', '68760', 'Modenas Karisma 125', '0', 'nazirmz', '4427c65629f49628624ed5ec6072e717', '1827', '6
ay
4464656', '71899', 'Poll, what\'s next for Proton and TM?', '0', 'Breadman', '003yaX5
kcivic....

Just curious....do we have b16a engine in our local civic range?
say civic 99 ?
tq
6799@yPÜ
èb
Ôè
ð®
�è
ðb
MsgImageprice of outy@°Ù
src=\"http://203.115.193.189/forum/images/emoticons/smile_shock.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Shock\">
yyз
9618490', '11282', '<<< erictck >>>', '0', 'erictck', '0e4e8cdc8203d67ed572997d8f9a9256yy°Ú
3109400', '68750', 'Modenas Elit Club ', '0', 'radiohead', '4786d69656ba9f7a8b275d5323b5fb4e', '12806', '
yyX;
1306606', '69067', 'Paging Mechanic', '0', 'deoughtred', '438fc2d07213daf8346ee321ea545d7b', '3977', ']e!¸y˜â
hz
ôê
àD
`ø
À%
‘
MsgNotify Want8°q

ÕHЮ
ê
@è

0@.
!˜2004-12-08 17:15:38.000y¸°
if u want, u can try complaining to one of the MPSJ councilour who
lives in Tmn Equine? Wnna try ur luck?yy°
6638152', '69338', 'Suzuki FX125', '0', 'rageaccel2', '48e66c10b70f734f29b6aa79520f355b', '34275', ' valve¡yhô
´R3bf_topics SET posts='2', last_post='1137666347', last_poster_name='npk',last_poster_userid='npk@1', last_poster_id='25453' WHERE tid='71775';hy¡ >
sangat berpuas hati. nilai tol yang dikenakan adalah berpatutan
dengan perkhidmatan yang ditawarkan.086d
y is a good german car, but problem with them their \"prestige\" image
is not on same level with BMWs and Mercedes. People who buy Audis are
mostly performance enthusiasts(which I am!

[d4z]

good words u ave there..but these bashers are just too bashers...just let
the time flows and we shall see what happen to proton, the thing i noe is
that is the G wont neglect or left proton..its a national project that is
too important to let go..

and im somehow are still with high hopes and dreams for proton...

[AE101rulez]

the solution is just not therelah.....Did 'the writer' mention a solution?
if you want Proton to be a successful company in today's world standard,
there must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national
interest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign
investment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in
lambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is 'orang cina' dun like
it, this shows that you all 'veli' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming
other races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars
cater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the
majority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the 'money' is the
30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group
will not pull 'mature' adults attention. If the product is not practical
who will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but
yet, young to old buy it. Don't go and say Toyota main share holderlah,
Perodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is
not suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the
likes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at
Johor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is
like school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a
old man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it
when actually if you want to improve something, do it properly, not half
heartedly. All this years, if Johor was paid good attention, it could have
been a successful state. Instead, the sources were used to feed the lazy
bumps in the political area. I may be a chinese but my kolik who is a malay
eventhough particulary a 'religious' one dare to tell me that he rather
keep his Honda City eventhough it is almost double the price of a Proton
Saga, so how can you say that 'chinese' is 1 of the cause? Why didn't the
writer blame the orang asli for not buying Proton?Looking at this "pundek"
writer, it is obviously he/she want to play the racial cards, blaming other
races. If you can prove to you people that you are hardworking to the
world, then prove it. If you don't then obviously people will critise you.
Take a look at China and India, 20 years ago, americans, british, and even
Japanese says that those country will vey backdated. Look at them now, all
the industrial companies are willing to set up their plant there. Look at
Thailand, they can be considered as Detriot of Asia, we? Do not say that
China and India improved due to high human resources. That is not true. If
that is the case, why dun internaitional companies invest in Indonesia
where the population is also big? Again with Thailand and Singapore, they
are just our neighbour, but yet, their economy are booming. We have bigger
land and other plenty resources then them, but yet what happened to them?
Dun do empty talks n at the end doing nothin. it will be obvious that G
won't let Proton die, but at the end, it will be our tax marney being
sourced to feed this baby for wat (20 years more of protection)????...if
you want to complain that perodua is doing well? take a look at Japan, they
got plenty of national car manufacturer down there, but yet you see them
complaining??They didn't need their Gov to feed them...I grew up during the
late 70's to the late 80's as a teen, and as i can see it, we won't be
going very far. From the nonsense policies introduced by gov, there wasn
much improvement done. The rich bastards are getting richer, and the poorer
idiots are getting poorer.Even my Thailand kolik counterpart can tell me
that we are still living in the 1980's standard where we keep on holding on
the east ignoring globalisation, thinking that the west counterparts are
'evil', corrupted or wat sort. Just by clinging on the National interest
won't help. If you want west expertise, but still wantto be the major share
holder, will they be willing to jv with you? it is like yoR3àÛ
ùthe solution is just not therelah.....Did 'the writer' mention a solution?
if you want Proton to be a successful company in today's world standard,
there must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national
interest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign
investment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in
lambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is 'orang cina' dun like
it, this shows that you all 'veli' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming
other races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars
cater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the
majority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the 'money' is the
30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group
will not pull 'mature' adults attention. If the product is not practical
who will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but
yet, young to old buy it. Don't go and say Toyota main share holderlah,
Perodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is
not suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the
likes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at
Johor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is
like school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a
old man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it
when ac

[Crosser]

So how come the 20yrs old power window problem still not yet fixed?
Oh I forgot!... it's tradition..

[DDiong]

Crosser,
"So how come the 20yrs old power window problem still not yet fixed?
Oh I forgot!... it's tradition.."

Yep,you're right! It's the "tradition" passed down from generation to
generation!

[razorclawz]

LOL! Yeah it's true! Not to mention the squeeks here and there like
piglets running all over the car! I'll never buy a proton...If no choise
I migrate :) Let Proton rule bolehland and watch it fall :( Gosh I'll
miss the Nasi Kandar stalls......

[razorclawz]

"Walaubagaimanapun design yg dibuat oleh manusia tidaklah
perfect... "
"Manusai bukan sempurna"
"People make mistake..."

'They' always say things like these. I swear I've never used them in any
debates whatsoever!!! So general! Lame excuse! Tak malu !

[razorclawz]

Let's keep this thread alive with your ideas on this yea?


---------------------------------------------------

Subject: Keluhan Seorang Engineer Proton- Must read



assalamualaikum, ni ada sorang hamba Allah yg nak menjawab
persoalan2 yg dilontarkan terhadap proton, up to u to believe it or
not..


Assalamualaikum,


Yang ni saya kena jawab la sebab banyak sangat misinformation.
Biasanya information yang berpindah dari satu mulut ke satu mulut yang
lain akan berubah menjadi sensasi. Itu lah masyarakat kita. Kita bukan
mendapat firsthand info tapi berdasarkan cerita yang telah ditokok
tambah. Ini dia cerita dari orang dalam yang duduk ditengah-tengah R&D
PROTON.


"Saya ada kenalan dari kastam boleh confirmkan perkara ni.. member saya
kerja kastam kat kelang dan beliau sendiri yang maklumkan yg salah satu
tugas dia adalah buat checking penerimaan barangan proton untuk di
pasangkan di negara ni. Satu kontena enjin je..
manakala kontena lain adalah pintu, body dan sebagainya. sama lah dengan
kereta lain juga."


Kalau kita lalu kat kawasan glenmarie tu, akan ternampak lah satu
tanda... Kilang Enjin Proton. Tanda tu tak duduk kat situ untuk suka
suka je. Kalau kita jengok kat dalam.... Boleh nampak besi cair yang
dituang kedalam acuan untuk membuat enjin block.
Memang proton ada mengimpot enjin tapi dari kelas 1.2 dan 2 liter.
1.2liter untuk Savvy (enjin Renault) dan 2.0liter untuk Perdana. Tapi
untuk enjin 1.3, 1.5, 1.6 proton buat sendiri. Untuk pintu pulak...
hanya kereta-kereta Perdana sahaja yang proton beli pintu dari
Mitsubishi. For your information, Untuk membuat pintu sahaja memerlukan
dekat 20 acuan. Bayangkan lah
4 pintu. Modal itu shaja sudah hampir RM50 juta. So untuk kereta yang
volume kecil, kita beli dari luar.
Untuk kereta Isawara, Wira, Waja, Gen2, Savvy... 100% body dibuat di
Malaysia .


"Bayangkan dah 20 tahun menanti kereta Malaysia yang sebenarnya tak
keluar-keluar lagi. Bagi yang berkemampuan sudah tentu tak mahu
menggunakan injin kenderaan berteknologi 70an, 80an dan 90an yang
diubahsuai. Sudah tentu ramai nak teknologi terkini dan sebenarnya milik
kita. Secara umumnya proton masih belum ada enjin sendiri lagi.. jadi
adalah sukar hendak dikatakan kalau ianya adalah kereta Malaysia yang
sebenarnya. Pengeluaran kenderaan adalah berdasarkan injinnya barulah
boleh dikatakan ianya kenderaan negara sebenarnya."


Disini lagi ada misinformation. Memang untuk kereta Perdana kita impot
enjin dari Jepun. Untuk Savvy kita gunakan enjin Renault. Untuk Isawara,
Wira dan Waja kita buat enjin di Malaysia walaupun design original dia
dari Mitsubishi. Tapi enjin Gen-2 adalah enjin terkini yang direka oleh
jurutera Proton dan dibina di Malaysia. Enjin tersebut menggunakan
teknologi terkini. Jadi kenyataan diatas agak menyesatkan sedikit. Naza,
Perodua.... Masih lagi membawa enjin dari luar. Modal untuk mereka dan
mengeluarkan enjin ni amat besar. Nak dapat return pun bukan nya
sekejap.
Tapi demi maruah dan kemajuan, kita korbankan keuntungan jangka pendek.
Selagi kita tidak mengeluarkan enjin sendiri.. selagi itu kita tidak
tahu. Sekarang kita telah pun mengeluarkan enjin sendiri... orang masih
tidak percaya. Itu lah masalah orang kita... memandang rendah kebolehan
anak negara sendiri.


"Selama ini proton bergantung kepada Mitsubishi sebagai rakan teknikal.
Oleh kerana kontrak selama 20 tahun telah tamat. Maka proton terpaksalah
mencari rakan teknikal yang baru dan bermulalah masalah melanda proton.
Sudah tentu rakan teknikal baru tidak mahu meneruskan rekaan dan
teknologi mitshubishi lagi. So apa kan jadi pada kereta proton yang ada
sekarang ni untuk masa akan datang."


Tidak wujud kontrak 20 tahun dengan Mitsubishi. Mereka adalah rakan
kongsi. Bertahun tahun kita berkerjasama dengan Mitsubishi tetapi
teknikal apa yang mereka turunkan. Kalau kita pernah berkerja dengan
orang Jepun atau Korea , mereka inilah yang paling kemut ilmu. Tapi bab
nak korek ilmu kita, dia orang rajin habis.Korang jangan terkejut bila
saya cakap yang R3àÛ
¸iè[
è[
dS3 not therelah.....Did 'the writer' mention a solution?
if you want Proton to be a successful company in today's world standard,
there must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national
interest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign
investment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in
lambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is 'orang cina' dun like
it, this shows that you all 'veli' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming
other races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars
cater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the
majority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the 'money' is the
30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group
will not pull 'mature' adults attention. If the product is not practical
who will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but
yet, young to old buy it. Don't go and say Toyota main share holderlah,
Perodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is
not suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the
likes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at
Johor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is
like school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a
old man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it
when actually if you want to improve something, do it properly, not half
heartedly. All this years, if Johor was paid good attention, it could have
been a successful state. Instead, the sources were used to feed the lazy
bumps in the political area. I may be a chinese but my kolik who is a malay
eventhough particulary a 'religious' one dare to tell me that he rather
keep his Honda City eventhough it is almost double the price of a Proton
Saga, so how can you say that 'chinese' is 1 of the cause? Why didn't the
writer blame the orang asli for not buying Proton?Looking at this "pundek"
writer, it is obviously he/she want to play the racial cards, blaming other
races. If you can prove to you people that you are hardworking to the
world, then prove it. If you don't then obviously people will critise you.
Take a look at China and India, 20 years ago, americans, british, and even
Japanese says that those country will vey backdated. Look at them now, all
the industrial companies are willing to set up their plant there. Look at
Thailand, they can be considered as Detriot of Asia, we? Do not say that
China and India improved due to high human resources. That is not true. If
that is the case, why dun internaitional companies invest in Indonesia
where the population is also big? Again with Thailand and Singapore, they
are just our neighbour, but yet, their economy are booming. We have bigger
land and other plenty resources then them, but yet what happened to them?
Dun do empty talks n at the end doing nothin. it will be obvious that G
won't let Proton die, but at the end, it will be our tax marney being
sourced to feed this baby for wat (20 years more of protection)????...if
you want to complain that perodua is doing well? take a look at Japan, they
got plenty of national car manufacturer down there, but yet you see them
complaining??They didn't need their Gov to feed them...I grew up during the
late 70's to the late 80's as a teen, and as i can see it, we won't be
going very far. From the nonsense policies introduced by gov, there wasn
much improvement done. The rich bastards are getting richer, and the poorer
idiots are getting poorer.Even my Thailand kolik counterpart can tell me
that we are still living in the 1980's standard where we keep on holding on
the east ignoring globalisation, thinking that the west counterparts are
'evil', corrupted or wat sort. Just by clinging on the National interest
won't help. If you want west expertise, but still wantto be the major share
holder, will they be willing to jv with you? it is like yoR3àÛ
ùthe solution is just not therelah.....Did 'the writer' mention a solution?
if you want Proton to be a successful company in today's world standard,
there must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national
interest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign
investment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in
lambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is 'orang cina' dun like
it, this shows that you all 'veli' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming
other races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars
cater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the
majority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the 'money' is the
30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group
will not pull 'mature' adults attention. If the product is not practical
who will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but
yet, young to old buy it. Don't go and say Toyota main share holderlah,
Perodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is
not suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the
likes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at
Johor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is
like school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a
old man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it
when ace.ùàq
àq
`S3s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143421', '', '27188', 'AE101rulez', '218.111.148.232','1162758669', '71903', 'Proton', '0', 'AE101rulez', 'b6e83dd3e0471c47f059541024228c8e', '15283', 'the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen actually if you want to improve something, do it properly, not half\nheartedly. All this years, if Johor was paid good attention, it could have\nbeen a successful state. Instead, the sources were used to feed the lazy\nbumps in the political area. I may be a chinese but my kolik who is a malay\neventhough particulary a \'religious\' one dare to tell me that he rather\nkeep his Honda City eventhough it is almost double the price of a Proton\nSaga, so how can you say that \'chinese\' is 1 of the cause? Why didn\'t the\nwriter blame the orang asli for not buying Proton?Looking at this \"pundek\"\nwriter, it is obviously he/she want to play the racial cards, blaming other\nraces. If you can prove to you people that you are hardworking to the\nworld, then prove it. If you don\'t then obviously people will critise you.\nTake a look at China and India, 20 years ago, americans, british, and even\nJapanese says that those country will vey backdated. Look at them now, all\nthe industrial companies are willing to set up their plant there. Look at\nThailand, they can be considered as Detriot of Asia, we? Do not say that\nChina and India improved due to high human resources. That is not true. If\nthat is the case, why dun internaitional companies invest in Indonesia\nwhere the population is also big? Again with Thailand and Singapore, they\nare just our neighbour, but yet, their economy are booming. We have bigger\nland and other plenty resources then them, but yet what happened to them?\nDun do empty talks n at the end doing nothin. it will be obvious that G\nwon\'t let Proton die, but at the end, it will be our tax marney being\nsourced to feed this baby for wat (20 years more of protection)????...if\nyou want to complain that perodua is doing well? take a look at Japan, they\ngot plenty of national car manufacturer down there, but yet you see them\ncomplaining??They didn\'t need their Gov to feed them...I grew up during the\nlate 70\'s to the late 80\'s as a teen, and as i can see it, we won\'t be\ngoing very far. From the nonsense policies introduced by gov, there wasn\nmuch improvement done. The rich bastards are getting richer, and the poorer\nidiots are getting poorer.Even my Thailand kolik counterpart can tell me\nthat we are still living in the 1980\'s standard where we keep on holding on\nthe east ignoring globalisation, thinking that the west counterparts are\n\'evil\', corrupted or wat sort. Just by clinging on the National interest\nwon\'t help. If you want west expertise, but still wantto be the major share\nholder, will they be willing to jv with you? it is like yo\0R3\0àÛ
ù\0\0\0\0the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen ac','AE101rulez@1');
2€‰h‰
h‰
,
'0', 'AE101rulez', 'b6e83dd3e0471c47f059541024228c8e', '15283', 'the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen actually if you want to improve something, do it properly, not half\nheartedly. All this years, if Johor was paid good attention, it could have\nbeen a successful state. Instead, the sources were used to feed the lazy\nbumps in the political area. I may be a chinese but my kolik who is a malay\neventhough particulary a \'religious\' one dare to tell me that he rather\nkeep his Honda City eventhough it is almost double the price of a Proton\nSaga, so how can you say that \'chinese\' is 1 of the cause? Why didn\'t the\nwriter blame the orang asli for not buying Proton?Looking at this \"pundek\"\nwriter, it is obviously he/she want to play the racial cards, blaming other\nraces. If you can prove to you people that you are hardworking to the\nworld, then prove it. If you don\'t then obviously people will critise you.\nTake a look at China and India, 20 years ago, americans, british, and even\nJapanese says that those country will vey backdated. Look at them now, all\nthe industrial companies are willing to set up their plant there. Look at\nThailand, they can be considered as Detriot of Asia, we? Do not say that\nChina and India improved due to high human resources. That is not true. If\nthat is the case, why dun internaitional companies invest in Indonesia\nwhere the population is also big? Again with Thailand and Singapore, they\nare just our neighbour, but yet, their economy are booming. We have bigger\nland and other plenty resources then them, but yet what happened to them?\nDun do empty talks n at the end doing nothin. it will be obvious that G\nwon\'t let Proton die, but at the end, it will be our tax marney being\nsourced to feed this baby for wat (20 years more of protection)????...if\nyou want to complain that perodua is doing well? take a look at Japan, they\ngot plenty of national car manufacturer down there, but yet you see them\ncomplaining??They didn\'t need their Gov to feed them...I grew up during the\nlate 70\'s to the late 80\'s as a teen, and as i can see it, we won\'t be\ngoing very far. From the nonsense policies introduced by gov, there wasn\nmuch improvement done. The rich bastards are getting richer, and the poorer\nidiots are getting poorer.Even my Thailand kolik counterpart can tell me\nthat we are still living in the 1980\'s standard where we keep on holding on\nthe east ignoring globalisation, thinking that the west counterparts are\n\'evil\', corrupted or wat sort. Just by clinging on the National interest\nwon\'t help. If you want west expertise, but still wantto be the major share\nholder, will they be willing to jv with you? it is like yo\0R3\0àÛ
ù\0\0\0\0the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen ac',ike‰DINSERT INTO ibf_posts (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143421', '', '27188', 'AE101rulez', '218.111.148.232','1162758669', '71903', 'Proton', '0', 'AE101rulez', 'b6e83dd3e0471c47f059541024228c8e', '15283', 'the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen actually if you want to improve something, do it properly, not half\nheartedly. All this years, if Johor was paid good attention, it could have\nbeen a successful state. Instead, the sources were used to feed the lazy\nbumps in the political area. I may be a chinese but my kolik who is a malay\neventhough particulary a \'religious\' one dare to tell me that he rather\nkeep his Honda City eventhough it is almost double the price of a Proton\nSaga, so how can you say that \'chinese\' is 1 of the cause? Why didn\'t the\nwriter blame the orang asli for not buying Proton?Looking at this \"pundek\"\nwriter, it is obviously he/she want to play the racial cards, blaming other\nraces. If you can prove to you people that you are hardworking to the\nworld, then prove it. If you don\'t then obviously people will critise you.\nTake a look at China and India, 20 years ago, americans, british, and even\nJapanese says that those country will vey backdated. Look at them now, all\nthe industrial companies are willing to set up their plant there. Look at\nThailand, they can be considered as Detriot of Asia, we? Do not say that\nChina and India improved due to high human resources. That is not true. If\nthat is the case, why dun internaitional companies invest in Indonesia\nwhere the population is also big? Again with Thailand and Singapore, they\nare just our neighbour, but yet, their economy are booming. We have bigger\nland and other plenty resources then them, but yet what happened to them?\nDun do empty talks n at the end doing nothin. it will be obvious that G\nwon\'t let Proton die, but at the end, it will be our tax marney being\nsourced to feed this baby for wat (20 years more of protection)????...if\nyou want to complain that perodua is doing well? take a look at Japan, they\ngot plenty of national car manufacturer down there, but yet you see them\ncomplaining??They didn\'t need their Gov to feed them...I grew up during the\nlate 70\'s to the late 80\'s as a teen, and as i can see it, we won\'t be\ngoing very far. From the nonsense policies introduced by gov, there wasn\nmuch improvement done. The rich bastards are getting richer, and the poorer\nidiots are getting poorer.Even my Thailand kolik counterpart can tell me\nthat we are still living in the 1980\'s standard where we keep on holding on\nthe east ignoring globalisation, thinking that the west counterparts are\n\'evil\', corrupted or wat sort. Just by clinging on the National interest\nwon\'t help. If you want west expertise, but still wantto be the major share\nholder, will they be willing to jv with you? it is like yo\0R3\0àÛ
ù\0\0\0\0the solution is just not therelah.....Did \'the writer\' mention a solution?\nif you want Proton to be a successful company in today\'s world standard,\nthere must be a jv involving atleast two car makers, but sadly national\ninterest comes first, this brings to why there is not much hope for foreign\ninvestment. one more thing i want to clear is that there is no point in\nlambasting how good it is, why people bash it, why is \'orang cina\' dun like\nit, this shows that you all \'veli\' pandai play the racial cards. Blaming\nother races for your own mistake is not a solution. Proton design cars\ncater for the younger appeal, where there is not much hope. They may be the\nmajority population nowadays, but the one that is hold the \'money\' is the\n30-50 year old age group. Designing cars for the teenage-young adults group\nwill not pull \'mature\' adults attention. If the product is not practical\nwho will buy it? Look at the myvi, just plain and simple and boring, but\nyet, young to old buy it. Don\'t go and say Toyota main share holderlah,\nPerodua just mass produced cars. Yes that is the case, but look, Proton is\nnot suppose to compete with perodua. it is suppose to compete with the\nlikes of Civic and Corolla group. So why bring perodua in? Take a look at\nJohor, blaming Singapore for its low development and high crime rate. It is\nlike school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a\nold man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it\nwhen ac','AE101rulez@1');lam0‰p·
p·
XS3velopment and high crime rate. It is
like school children blaming one another and the worst case is that even a
old man like the Sultan Johor can say that Singapore is the cause of it
when aced w8
1h¸
h¸
XS3second \ncar status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001 \nBMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were \nbought new.\n\nFrom my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of \nquality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa \n(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very \noften) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The \nHondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So, \nperhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better \nmade than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least \nmechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this \nrespect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also \nproblematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were \nnever rendered immobile.\n\nOn the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are \nleagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and \nstill has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too \nand is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring. \nBoth the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas. \n\nHowever, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be \npointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my \nBMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.\n\nAs for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental \nhave resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes \nit simpler to arrive at decisions... \n\nSo when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car \nwith Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like \nthe Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a \nstretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...\n','wglee@1');
dl`ù @À
@À
ôe

also makes common buses, lorries, mini-vans and even small cars - is
not \"prestigious\" enough - afterall a bus driver can also say he\'s
driving a merc and so does a van driver - alongside a driver driving a
basic E200 merc.

it is ok to make profit but be realistic la.
eg vios price from 35k factory price sell at 81k market price how come?

factory price must be around RM15-20k only.So this toyol guys mark up
kaw2 until 35k!

if they declare ard RM25k then selling price should be ard RM60k

the dealers/importers here declare lower price to cut taxes but
declare higher prices when selling to customers blaming the G!
G also is to blame for their exorbitant taxes but dealers..aiyo,please la.
Dun add salt to the wound!
f all È
‰
ØÃ
ØÃ
ظ
(opps, already doing so),
Naza, Inokom etc.

Car ownership by way of monthly wage:
0- RM1000 - Boon Passo
1000-2000 - Avanza
2000-3000 - vios
3000-4000 - hilux
4000-5000 - innova
5000-6000 - altis
more than that - camry

Motorcycle to be given freely out for those against the policy - Locally
Taiwan made ones off course.

Those in the motor industry to be absorbed by SCs to work as pomens.

Cheers

À
y¸ihä
.i can switch it on...after auto off...no stanby/CD/radio mode...the
audio system is totally offhly8Ø


0
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y"Walaubagaimanapun design yg dibuat oleh manusia tidaklah
perfect... "
"Manusai bukan sempurna"
"People make mistake..."

'They' always say things like these. I swear I've never used them in any
debates whatsoever!!! So general! Lame excuse! Tak malu ! st

¯
ðD
y@ˆ
he....jaga2 masa kopek sticker Felio tu..jangan sampai kena tangkap
dgn. tokey kedai potong tu.... ', '(y°È
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!(2006-11-03 03:32:41.000(!p*
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3058807', '11854', 'accord timing belt putus', '0', 'hermuss', 'fbfbc73898b8ffdccb3d9eb2603f02fd', '61690'àyPÉ
PÉ
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‹
s (pid, edit_time, author_id, author_name, ip_address, post_date, topic_id, post_title, new_topic, edit_name, post_key, post_parent, post, old_UserID) VALUES ('1143425', '', '51140', 'razorclawz', '192.198.147.96','1162979038', '71903', 'Proton', '0', 'razorclawz', '3b49048255529d83347589cb36a561c4', '15302', '\"Walaubagaimanapun design yg dibuat oleh manusia tidaklah \nperfect... \"\n\"Manusai bukan sempurna\"\n\"People make mistake...\"\n\n\'They\' always say things like these. I swear I\'ve never used them in any \ndebates whatsoever!!! So general! Lame excuse! Tak malu !','razorclawz@1');
3hy|R3|R3d4z@1');u bookeH™\R3°
oll@1');ar indu(¹Ñ$R3P

yàH™
ks....>´
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TEXTR3ypÒ
3269573', '10893', 'Gua Musang - Jeli, route 66', '0', 'cygnus', '1e0405fda70941b349905dab02551ed0', '8071yyh:
for the tag
inside got 50...

ldp ...kesas... sri hartamas tol... sprint tol...damansara tol.....

yyè3
2546488', '10805', 'Beware !! Kancil ADD 8609', '0', 'eddievh', '4f90dab4dccb2af27c203d33c1571b94', '6266yyx)
ve seen the bike today at Masjid India and its good looking. Hope its
performance is as good as its look.‰yÀˆ
�ö
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€$
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src=\"http://202.157.189.199/forum/images/emoticons/smile_angry.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Angry\">
�yÐq
�„
146', '71899', 'Poll, what\'s next for Proton and TM?', '0', 'demanautic', '6f1e0e9287f791b6ab3f84999fbbd6b7', '12069', '''y�ðÿ
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_thumbup.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"ThumbUp\">u@
y8þ
8þ
design yg dibuat oleh manusia tidaklah
perfect... \"
\"Manusai bukan sempurna\"
\"People make mistake...\"

\'They\' always say things like these. I swear I\'ve never used them in any
debates whatsoever!!! So general! Lame excuse! Tak malu !y@
Pï
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_thumbup.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"ThumbUp\">yy˜0
0293534', '10893', 'Gua Musang - Jeli, route 66', '0', 'Ardenz', '9af02cff0026f1e99572205400b1169b', '7794yyà[
7422553', '10928', 'Idiots never learn?', '0', 'Dar', 'a3e173b51698b77105a68faa9f0614b5', '4240', '
181897yy¸9
src=\"http://i1.autoworld.com.my/forum/images/emoticons/smile_big.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Big Smile\">'áyser,
\"So how come the 20yrs old power window problem still not yet fixed?
Oh I forgot!... it\'s tradition..\"

Yep,you\'re right! It\'s the \"tradition\" passed down from generation to
generation! >

¡áProtonion.?ed during waiting period for new car347', last_poster_name='npk',last_poster_userid='npk@1', last_poster_id='25453' WHERE tid='71775';y¡ 0
ks for the replies. will post in the correct forum in the future.

cheers,
wps '�yÀ]
H;
043', '71899', 'Poll, what\'s next for Proton and TM?', '0', 'AE101rulez', '03f10d39bb360fa1d760218c62a61aa8', '12391', 't?>y�à­
8566619', '11474', '2006 Civic VS Mazda3', '0', 'Ronk', 'f06da333ceffae76e632a03019bba6e0', '89880', ', '�y(¯
ÀT
een nominated for Man of the Year award again. What has he done \nin the past one year (or previous) to deserve that? that?'y�°L
0784881', '11605', '8th. Gen Honda Civic 2006', '0', 'heaveneart', '14a5fa017fe3c3f48b0465f68ef3abcf', '09y2Üôô×
¸$
¸+
€$
h4
FileIDfy098?

razorclawzyèJ
move. now u can settle summons online with credit card summore. dont
give money to these people.tyyXl
6872182', '54958', 'juara k-car?', '0', 'g88', '580e9f52b9fa495934347c4396d5a847', '121962', 'Really ?',,©yÈñ
t a gold color Accord. I saw a burned Accord on the Federal Highway
early this year. I was suprised that a car that new will actualy burn..',!!!y©˜
education prob then what? See ppl in SG and JPN. Do you think parents
there not busy? Why they Q?yÐ3

511403y€û
ably it is in their heads that beating the jam is considered
an \'emergency\' for themselves...'yyØ;
9867415', '68776', 'Modenas SC in Shah Alam ', '0', 'ugack', 'dde71a508fc8b4db2f649053b8f18449', '14492', '0y˜­
DR3„Û
°Ì
p~
nRet 'Q0@‹
ES ('1143421', '', '27188', 'AE101rulez', '218.111.148.232',247',
yQhÈ
beli kat gombak..
skangg nie memang standard arr..
Mantizz on the road 4400..
ko round kat mana??
',)yyë
ard my fren there got spycam for speed trap at jalan mahameru to pj
under the kl sentral flyover..ÑyÀó
TM\'s should commit ritual suicide and Proton should be sold to the
highest bidder on the understanding there will be NO more public money
available to them either directly or indirectly.ionÀÑà+
ÔR3 singing, but TM was
supposed to be a marketing man but then he can say he has no \'professional
training\' in sales that explains why PROTON can\'t sell.yÀèç
9568997', '10889', 'Ghost at South-North Bound', '0', 'Twilight', '77cd7b9268c2a66de26c70291fb13d49', '4469Qyˆæ
ES ('71900','premium compact sedan shootout', '', '', '38762', 'yQð*
8217044', '10889', 'Ghost at South-North Bound', '0', 'y2j', 'f4f7c18c76e17d8be2d6b4c39d8a33ee', '4379', 'yyh9
a..benda yang nak sumbat masuk ke tayar..apa ke nama pun aku tak
tahu..aku

[tewniasing]

proton can go to hell,better still let mat salleh vw buy
over.......penjajahan baru,sekarang semua boss malaysia kena kow tow
dengan mat salleh..hahahahahahah...

[beagle2k]

Tiu, I cannot tahan reading this nonsense.. berkarut-karut .. stupid Proton
engineer. Who say Perodua is 100% owned by Toyota/Daihatsu? Since when
Proton need AP to sell car? Who say Waja is 100% local design. Even TM
admit the platform is taken from Mitsubishi. This just proved how stupid &
ignorant Proton eigineers are .. WTF!!!