[LGX]

Hi guys,

Good discussion ... keep it up and hopefully no flaming will arise
this is a rather delicate and sensitive topic to discuss, mainly because
as humans we do have our biasness and emotional attachment to
our posessions and choices ... which could easily lead us into arguments

as always, conti owners will favour contis unconditionally and Japs
owners likewise

maybe we shouldn`t lump contis together, there should be differentiation
among Germans, French, Italians, Swedish etc coz the
peculiarities are different. Generally, people tend to agree that
Germans are more hardy and reliable ...

let me relate my experience as someone who have owned national cars, japs
and a conti (French) ...

ah yes, wmsoo, we have spoken before over the phone; and I was then under
different nick ...

ok,

somebody rightfully pointed out that choice of cars depends on our
main purpose ... as a workhorse transporter or for driving pleasure,
style etc.

i started my car ownership with national cars (what else), one after
another ... 3 of them in total

of course not by choice but by default (affordability) , since just
started working etc.

at that time, contis have always been viewed with admiration and have
been the aim or target to own one...

Owning national cars are nothing to shout about. They are just
practical machines which we try to get rid of after a while...

So when the time came as I deemed suitable, I did an extensive
research, survey, reading and references regarding conti car ownership
which finally led me to owning my first conti (which happen to also be
the last); the Citroen Evasion MPV, bought 2nd hand at 4yrs old.

Doing exactly what other people did after buying it, I sent for major
servicing and changing all potential worn out parts wihch costed quite
a substantial amount of $$$ ... all done by skilled mechanics at
workshops highly recommended by fellow comrades .

Outcome of my conti story : sold it of after 5 mths; despite changing
this and that by the experts, still have to visit them almost 2 weekly
or monthly ... can`t tolerate the hassle, although the cost not too bad.
And I couldn`t get the peace of mind and reliability that I expect out of
a vehicle...

and settled for my current ride ... no regrets at all
and also bought another Jap sedan ...

========================================

my bro-in-law did the same thing... sold off waja for a 306 a year ago
the 306 was certified by Suhaimee (Kuantan conti mechanic) to be under
good care and condition from previous owner as it was maintained by
him ... but still... to date it has been towed 4 times for various
reasons; including recently on the 3rd Raya (overheated twice, fuel
leak once, wiring probs once)

and my bro-in-law is also somebody who was never careless of his 306
maintenance

my mom`s 1st gen. Honda City, same age as the 306, never had any
hiccups since bought (2nd hand also) ... been really pushed to the
limit I tell you ... and has always been the backup car when the 306
fails unpredictably.

===============================================

my conclusion :

>>contis are alright for recreational drive, to enjoy the handling,
comfort etc whatever

>>Japs are here to stay if you need serious transportation needs

And this statement is just my opinion as someone who has owned national
cars, contis and Japs

As far as I am concerned, no more contis for me, thanks


Peace, people

[wglee]

I have owned a 1992 Honda Civic 1.5EX(M) (SR4) as my first car,
subsequently graduating to a 1997 Honda Accord 2.0EXi(A) (SV4/CE7), then
bought a 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 Selespeed with the Accord relegated to second
car status, thereafter I sold both the Accord and Alfa and bought a 2001
BMW 325i and a bit later a 2003 Proton Iswara 1.3 Aeroback. All cars were
bought new.

From my experience, none of the above cars were perfect in terms of
quality of manufacture/assembly. But the worst of the lot was the Alfa
(problem after problem, and it seems to love to visit the workshop very
often) and strangely the least troublesome of the lot was the Proton! The
Hondas were OK and I would rate them as being just ahead of the BMW. So,
perhaps there is some truth in the notion that Japanese cars are better
made than Continentals (and the Proton is Jap-based, at least
mechanically). Some say that Mercs are as good as the Japanese in this
respect, but I heard that the recent crop of Mercs after the W124 are also
problematic...Anyway, for the record, other than the Alfa, my cars were
never rendered immobile.

On the other hand, when it comes to driving dynamics, the Alfa and BMW are
leagues ahead of my Hondas. The Alfa steers and handles very well and
still has an acceptable ride quality. The BMW handles and rides well too
and is very refined. By comparison, my Hondas are so bland and boring.
Both the Alfa and BMW also feel more solid than the Hondas.

However, so as to put things in their proper perspective, it has to be
pointed out that the BMW costs much more than the Hondas and Alfa, and my
BMW and Alfa were far newer than my Hondas.

As for resale value, most cars these days whether Oriental or Continental
have resale values which are nothing to shout about, so that perhaps makes
it simpler to arrive at decisions...

So when can we ever have a reasonably priced, well-made and reliable car
with Continental solidity and dynamics? This is where I think cars like
the Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and the European-spec Honda Accord (and, at a
stretch, the VW Passat) may deserve some consideration...

[AE101rulez]

so the conclusion is that Contis are for people wanting sensational
driving experiences and Japs are for people who wants reliability,
safety, and peace in mind.. Anyone got other opinions?

[wmsoo]

Again, my sincere thanks for those of you good souls who participates in
this thread. l believe we are getting lot of eyeballs for this thread as
l was mentioned personally by a friend ( Conti fans ) that he enjoyed
reading this though does not write in any.

To my "lost" Kuantan friend,L,nice to see you here again, so how is your
post graduate? To Wglee, Alfa Romeo 156,never fails to excite me, as she
did to you! But you owned it, but l just a passenger in a friend 2.5 V6
Sportmatic.

l am not blindly a Conti fanatic, currently monitoring a Japs car, dont
know when it will available on our shore, the Toyota Prius. The hybrid
technology was said as a new breakthrough in motoring world. But ahh.
obviously l can`t afford it.

l dreamed of a car as sexy as AR 156, layan selekoh as good as Citroen
ZX,comfort as Pug 405 Sri and as reliable as Corolla.

So far the nearest that l can find is a 1984 Volvo 240 transplanted with
a Nissan engine..... On serious note, as Wglee wrote, those new Mazda 3
and 6 are strong candidates.

[gameover]

Interesting topic. I have generally agreed with what some of my European
friends tell me in terms of European vs. Japanese cars, ie. some are better
than others. Many of them do not trust French cars for example and do not
keep them beyond the 3-year warranty period and several do not like the
newer, "gadget" laden Mercedes. BMW and Volvo tend to be reliable
workhorses however.

My own personal experience at least in Malaysia and the US have matched
some of these, the Volvo 940 and S80 are very reliable and comfortable
although the S80 is somewhat expensive to maintain through FA. The Merc
W124 E-class is very reliable, lots of cheap spare parts around and very
well built but my close uncle's Merc W210 E240 CBU has had to have it's A/C
fixed many times. No problems at all with my Honda Accord and Nissan Sentra.

Having gone through a minivan/MPV buying process recently, I have to say
that the european models certainly looked very attractive, both
aesthetically and feature-wise. The Peugeot 807 has excellent safety
ratings and lots of features, but I still don't trust new French cars after
reading several reviews on UK car mags. I ended up with a Toyota instead,
not particularly exciting but reliable and reasonable safe.

:-)

[prozac51]

zzr, nothing wrong with driving a saga. You still see lots of junk PPAG
cars in UK and US being driven around.

But incidentally you're wrong, I don't drive one.

[cpyew]

I think it's what's one final desire and needs will be. If you like a good ride,
handling, composure and have the $$$, than a conti may be the choice.
Don't forget extra TLC is required with conti cars than oriental cars.

Or if one travels long distances (600+km) on same day return trips contis would be
good for many years becoz of better seats and minimum body roll. If your needs
are just from home to office and occasional trips, japs are good enough and cost
much less to maintain. Yes contis cost more money to buy and to maintain.
Whether it's worth it depends on the need, besides having the money.

New Jap cars are getting better on ride and handling but their seat support is still
far behind. Try seatng in a 5 yr old oriental car for outstation and try a well kept
conti of 10 yrs old, there is a difference at the end of journey.

Over 15 years of outstation travelling, starting with Nissan Bluebird and changed
to a french conti (due to lower price) there is no regret. My back problem is gone
after using a conti. and I think it's the seat as well. Look at the kind of fleet cars
the europeans are using than you may understand.

cpyew

[wmsoo]

Mr Cpyew, thank you for your precise explanation, that what its worth
depends on what the needs are. And my needs direct me to Conti, French
Conti.

l enjoys it.

[LGX]

So guys,

after all the exchanging of ideas, opinions and the peaceful intellectual
discussion that we had here, can we safely conclude that :

1-Contis are for comfort and driving pleasure

2-Japs are for hassle-free, worry-free motoring

3-No right or wrong, choice entirely up to owner's requirement based on
no.1 or no.2 as above

maybe this thread can be ended as there is nothing else to discuss.
Basically we can go on and on but repeating the same facts.

Whaddayathink?


Arigato

[Breadman]

I'm currently driving a Ford (Japanese Ford, not European) and I really
like to buy the Peugeot 407 if it is 20K cheaper. Distributors of
European marques must price their cars according to the competition. The
Honda equivalent cost 20K less. And don't tell me they are satisfied with
their sales numbers now.

Potential customers must be given some incentives (nice price for
example) to try their products. As someone above said 'once tried they
are converted'.

Good after sales service and readily available spare parts can be an
added attraction.