Hi all,
1. I dont know what type of brake oil in my wira, can I add either Dot 3
or Dot 4 ? How to check my current brake oil is Dot 3 or Dot 4? Can Dot 3
and Dot 4 be mixed?
2. How often we need to change or add power steering oil? Why the power
steering oil still in the same level since last 3 yrs ago i bought it?
Please advice.
cheers
Close
Brake fluid- Dot3 or Dot4 ?
Started by
coolbird
, Jul 07 2006 05:39 PM, 16 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 07 July 2006 - 05:52 PM
noname78
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- Members
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- 10,087 posts
Hot Rod
1. I dont know what type of brake oil in my wira, can I add either Dot 3
or Dot 4 ? How to check my current brake oil is Dot 3 or Dot 4? Can Dot 3
and Dot 4 be mixed?
=> Wira can use either DOT3 or DOT4. see the gasket... it did stated
there. DOT3 is yellowish/brownish color. DOT4 is clear color... white
clear color.
2. How often we need to change or add power steering oil? Why the power
steering oil still in the same level since last 3 yrs ago i bought it?
=> Power steering oil wont reduce. It reduce, probably is leaking. You
only need to change when the power steering performance is reduce...
or Dot 4 ? How to check my current brake oil is Dot 3 or Dot 4? Can Dot 3
and Dot 4 be mixed?
=> Wira can use either DOT3 or DOT4. see the gasket... it did stated
there. DOT3 is yellowish/brownish color. DOT4 is clear color... white
clear color.
2. How often we need to change or add power steering oil? Why the power
steering oil still in the same level since last 3 yrs ago i bought it?
=> Power steering oil wont reduce. It reduce, probably is leaking. You
only need to change when the power steering performance is reduce...
#3
Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:16 PM
coolbird
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- Members
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- 17 posts
Member
Noname,
Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa? ( I ask this because I'm
not sure what type of brake oil using in my car now- My current brake oil
is quite fade compare to the dark color one of my friend's car)?
Can or not ?
cheers
Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa? ( I ask this because I'm
not sure what type of brake oil using in my car now- My current brake oil
is quite fade compare to the dark color one of my friend's car)?
Can or not ?
cheers
#4
Posted 08 July 2006 - 02:23 AM
MidNiteOil
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- Members
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- 350 posts
Taxi Driver
You may put DOT 3 or 4 on a system which require DOT 3 fluid. But you
cannot pour in DOT 3 in a system that require DOT 4...sigh!
cannot pour in DOT 3 in a system that require DOT 4...sigh!
#5
Posted 08 July 2006 - 02:39 PM
vr2turbo
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Forum Ninja
- Gender:Male
Noname,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red in colour, and Dot 4 is clear
yellowish in colour.
Coolbird,
"Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa?"
Yes, you can mix Dot 3 to Dot 4, but why??
"My current brake oil is quite fade"
If your brake fliud is more than 1 year old, you might as well flush the
whole system and pour in New Dot 4. FYI, Dot 4 fluid withstands higher
temperature than Dot 3.
"compare to the dark color one of my friend's car"
Your friend's car brake fluid might be dirty.
eg. I have used Dot 3 before. Pour in time - Bright Red in colour, when
dirty - dark red in colour.
For Dot 4 - Pour in Clear yellowish in color, when dirty - dark yellowish
or blackish green in colour.
I normally flush my brake system every year.
rdgs,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red in colour, and Dot 4 is clear
yellowish in colour.
Coolbird,
"Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa?"
Yes, you can mix Dot 3 to Dot 4, but why??
"My current brake oil is quite fade"
If your brake fliud is more than 1 year old, you might as well flush the
whole system and pour in New Dot 4. FYI, Dot 4 fluid withstands higher
temperature than Dot 3.
"compare to the dark color one of my friend's car"
Your friend's car brake fluid might be dirty.
eg. I have used Dot 3 before. Pour in time - Bright Red in colour, when
dirty - dark red in colour.
For Dot 4 - Pour in Clear yellowish in color, when dirty - dark yellowish
or blackish green in colour.
I normally flush my brake system every year.
rdgs,
#6
Posted 08 July 2006 - 04:33 PM
Tourist
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- Members
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- 6,715 posts
White Lightning
DOT 3-4 Verses DOT 5. Which brake fluid should I use?
From Oak Okleshen #35 "With regards to the DOT 3-4 verses DOT 5 brake fluid
controversy, here is an article sent to me by Mr. Steve Wall. It is one of
the most professional treatments I have seen on the subject".
[I had to condense this article from 6 pages to 1 due to space limitations -ed]
Brake Fluid Facts
by Steve Wall
As a former materials engineering supervisor at a major automotive brake
system supplier, I feel both qualified and obligated to inject some
material science facts into the murky debate about DOT 5 verses DOT 3-4
brake fluids. The important technical issues governing the use of a
particular specification brake fluid are as follows:
1. Fluid compatibility with the brake system rubber, plastic and metal
components.
2. Water absorption and corrosion.
3. Fluid boiling point and other physical characteristics.
4. Brake system contamination and sludging.
Additionally, some technical comments will be made about the new brake
fluid formulations appearing on the scene.
First of all, it's important to understand the chemical nature of brake
fluid. DOT 3 brake fluids are mixtures of glycols and glycol ethers. DOT 4
contains borate esters in addition to what is contained in DOT 3. These
brake fluids are somewhat similar to automotive anti-freeze (ethylene
glycol) and are not, as Dr. Curve implies, a petroleum fluid. DOT 5 is
silicone chemistry.
Fluid Compatibility
Brake system materials must be compatible with the system fluid.
Compatibility is determined by chemistry, and no amount of advertising,
wishful thinking or rationalizing can change the science of chemical
compatibility. Both DOT 3-4 and DOT 5 fluids are compatible with most brake
system materials except in the case some silicone rubber external
components such as caliper piston boots, which are attacked by silicon
fluids and greases.
Water absorption and corrosion
The big bugaboo with DOT 3-4 fluids always cited by silicone fluid
advocates is water absorption. DOT 3-4 glycol based fluids, just like
ethylene glycol antifreezes, are readily miscible with water. Long term
brake system water content tends to reach a maximum of about 3%, which is
readily handled by the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid formulation.
Since the inhibitors are gradually depleted as they do their job, glycol
brake fluid, just like anti-freeze, needs to be changed periodically.
Follow BMW's recommendations. DOT 5 fluids, not being water miscible, must
rely on the silicone (with some corrosion inhibitors) as a barrier film to
control corrosion. Water is not absorbed by silicone as in the case of DOT
3-4 fluids, and will remain as a separate globule sinking to the lowest
point in the brake system, since it is more dense.
Fluid boiling point
DOT 4 glycol based fluid has a higher boiling point (446F) than DOT 3
(401F), and both fluids will exhibit a reduced boiling point as water
content increases. DOT 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point
(500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its
way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor
lock condition [possible brake failure -ed.]. By contrast, DOT 3 fluid with
3% water content would still exhibit a boiling point of 300F. Silicone
fluids also exhibit a 3 times greater propensity to dissolve air and other
gasses which can lead to a "spongy pedal" and reduced braking at high
altitudes.
DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids are mutually compatible, the major disadvantage of
such a mix being a lowered boiling point. In an emergency, it'll do.
Silicone fluid will not mix, but will float on top. From a lubricity
standpoint, neither fluids are outstanding, though silicones will exhibit a
more stable viscosity index in extreme temperatures, which is why the US
Army likes silicone fluids. Since few of us ride at temperatures very much
below freezing, let alone at 40 below zero, silicone's low temperature
advantage won't be apparent. Neither flu ! P A H < P FileID D oun 8 h
9 P :c & (! sTitle 9 V PD ! }a71@tm.net.my st: A ! d last_poster_id '1', ' A A D3* L Asia/Kuala_Lumpur A A 9 me,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red i , ' ! A (T -09-03 23:04:22.000 y ! 2200369', '24338', 'Kia Picanto Owner', '0', 'edlim', '2f8f8e16145c01232c972a7cb0d67db8', '36461', ' ' 8 9 y Y/b d h ! (! @ sState y 9 l cally based on alphabetical order, V is higher than E. Even in T
brand, G spec is higher than E spec. ' ! y 3 :01.000 9 ! Q ƹ 4! X szDesc ! 9 $ net.my ! ! + 3_puppy@hotmail.com 9 ! ' ! X ! X sStartName 9 9 C ! (" ! 8 sStartDate 9 9 HG 4" x! nDepth 9 9 Ё, l" " x forum_id 9 9 a " " `" sIPAddress 9 9 " @D % " 0 sPostParent 9 9 ܯ[
# @# `% Hx# sEditDate rday o9 9 d L# x# # sPostKey ng arou9 9 w:
# % @# # nNewTopic selah A 9 ink they went beyond API SM standard by testin 0 y A h 2725422', '24338', 'Kia Picanto Owner', '0', 'khyee68', '5c53d92c6fda1dafa6ccaf17238e29e0', '36702', ' f] y y p 9184410', '36888', 'Facelift Nissan Sentra', '1', 'heritage', 'd3aa7099f9a89106771ca495eaa34c66', '', ' 56 A y x me,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red i r 'tl@ A TR3 ,% = xn ) Hidden o q $R3 8 9 @ cC$ l% P # % sOldUserID 9 9 Pq 9 # % `% " sMessage erday oY 9 ES ('45761','Brake fluid- Dot3 or Dot4 ?', '', '', '59600', 'coolbird', ' ' y Y ` other extreme is people driving on the right lane at slow speed with
hazard lights on during raining. !\n ! y h isco 7000 in Klang ! ! 2006-06-13 08:03:31.000 y ! p 7145132', '10919', 'HONK TWICE WHEN U SEE THIS CAR!', '1', 'promoking', '8aaa8a8b2ecdefcebb25f68713bd3a97 iy y H silver, i prefer black, cause its cool, blue also quite nice, sharp
colour, hope to get my city asap ' coy y @ src=\"http://202.157.189.199/forum/images/emoticons/smile_approve.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Approve\"> els. y hD x( x( D ab 1 h4 ( y version have alot of vacume flying here and there, so you may need to
disable / block some to use. @ y p) p) crlf]Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa? ( I ask this because I\'m
not sure what type of brake oil using in my car now- My current brake oil
is quite fade compare to the dark color one of my friend\'s car)?
Can or not ?
cheers y @ x0043379', '36876', 'Excellent N16', '0', 'ceebee6873', '88a807a53490dc482c96c5c481ac2fcc', '30733', ' ks Si y TE ibf_topics SET posts='2', last_post='1116292345', last_poster_name='Phibes',last_poster_userid='Phibes@1', last_poster_id='39076' WHERE tid='45760';
! e Headlights?? t: y ! ) nza...its unethical..
if me, i will never do it...because i dont want people to do it on my car.
A y ( too bothered about the expiry... another 5 yrs 24 y A could always drop by at any Traffic Police Station and have a check
with them as they should help you. y y \ 3937085', '36953', 'fully syn on new engine??', '0', 'fooyc', '77fa056fe073fb8fdc558edd877a09eb', '50782 . y - - type of brake oil in my wira, can I add either Dot 3
or Dot 4 ? How to check my current brake oil is Dot 3 or Dot 4? Can Dot 3
and Dot 4 be mixed?
=> Wira can use either DOT3 or DOT4. see the gasket... it did stated
there. DOT3 is yellowish/brownish color. DOT4 is clear color... white
clear color.
2. How often we need to change or add power steering oil? Why the power
steering oil still in the same level since last 3 yrs ago i bought it?
=> Power steering oil wont reduce. It reduce, probably is leaking. You
only need to change when the power steering performance is reduce... );
y 2 9758131', '12292', 'Best fuel for Honda City Vtec', '0', 'machzero', '23d8e02208f750f64a16fa574b47e779', ' y y 6 0160263', '10893', 'Gua Musang - Jeli, route 66', '0', 'cygnus', '1765976479fdc0ffdb389fdd5f8ab6af', '7643 y y h !![]()
From Oak Okleshen #35 "With regards to the DOT 3-4 verses DOT 5 brake fluid
controversy, here is an article sent to me by Mr. Steve Wall. It is one of
the most professional treatments I have seen on the subject".
[I had to condense this article from 6 pages to 1 due to space limitations -ed]
Brake Fluid Facts
by Steve Wall
As a former materials engineering supervisor at a major automotive brake
system supplier, I feel both qualified and obligated to inject some
material science facts into the murky debate about DOT 5 verses DOT 3-4
brake fluids. The important technical issues governing the use of a
particular specification brake fluid are as follows:
1. Fluid compatibility with the brake system rubber, plastic and metal
components.
2. Water absorption and corrosion.
3. Fluid boiling point and other physical characteristics.
4. Brake system contamination and sludging.
Additionally, some technical comments will be made about the new brake
fluid formulations appearing on the scene.
First of all, it's important to understand the chemical nature of brake
fluid. DOT 3 brake fluids are mixtures of glycols and glycol ethers. DOT 4
contains borate esters in addition to what is contained in DOT 3. These
brake fluids are somewhat similar to automotive anti-freeze (ethylene
glycol) and are not, as Dr. Curve implies, a petroleum fluid. DOT 5 is
silicone chemistry.
Fluid Compatibility
Brake system materials must be compatible with the system fluid.
Compatibility is determined by chemistry, and no amount of advertising,
wishful thinking or rationalizing can change the science of chemical
compatibility. Both DOT 3-4 and DOT 5 fluids are compatible with most brake
system materials except in the case some silicone rubber external
components such as caliper piston boots, which are attacked by silicon
fluids and greases.
Water absorption and corrosion
The big bugaboo with DOT 3-4 fluids always cited by silicone fluid
advocates is water absorption. DOT 3-4 glycol based fluids, just like
ethylene glycol antifreezes, are readily miscible with water. Long term
brake system water content tends to reach a maximum of about 3%, which is
readily handled by the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid formulation.
Since the inhibitors are gradually depleted as they do their job, glycol
brake fluid, just like anti-freeze, needs to be changed periodically.
Follow BMW's recommendations. DOT 5 fluids, not being water miscible, must
rely on the silicone (with some corrosion inhibitors) as a barrier film to
control corrosion. Water is not absorbed by silicone as in the case of DOT
3-4 fluids, and will remain as a separate globule sinking to the lowest
point in the brake system, since it is more dense.
Fluid boiling point
DOT 4 glycol based fluid has a higher boiling point (446F) than DOT 3
(401F), and both fluids will exhibit a reduced boiling point as water
content increases. DOT 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point
(500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its
way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor
lock condition [possible brake failure -ed.]. By contrast, DOT 3 fluid with
3% water content would still exhibit a boiling point of 300F. Silicone
fluids also exhibit a 3 times greater propensity to dissolve air and other
gasses which can lead to a "spongy pedal" and reduced braking at high
altitudes.
DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids are mutually compatible, the major disadvantage of
such a mix being a lowered boiling point. In an emergency, it'll do.
Silicone fluid will not mix, but will float on top. From a lubricity
standpoint, neither fluids are outstanding, though silicones will exhibit a
more stable viscosity index in extreme temperatures, which is why the US
Army likes silicone fluids. Since few of us ride at temperatures very much
below freezing, let alone at 40 below zero, silicone's low temperature
advantage won't be apparent. Neither flu ! P A H < P FileID D oun 8 h
9 P :c & (! sTitle 9 V PD ! }a71@tm.net.my st: A ! d last_poster_id '1', ' A A D3* L Asia/Kuala_Lumpur A A 9 me,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red i , ' ! A (T -09-03 23:04:22.000 y ! 2200369', '24338', 'Kia Picanto Owner', '0', 'edlim', '2f8f8e16145c01232c972a7cb0d67db8', '36461', ' ' 8 9 y Y/b d h ! (! @ sState y 9 l cally based on alphabetical order, V is higher than E. Even in T
brand, G spec is higher than E spec. ' ! y 3 :01.000 9 ! Q ƹ 4! X szDesc ! 9 $ net.my ! ! + 3_puppy@hotmail.com 9 ! ' ! X ! X sStartName 9 9 C ! (" ! 8 sStartDate 9 9 HG 4" x! nDepth 9 9 Ё, l" " x forum_id 9 9 a " " `" sIPAddress 9 9 " @D % " 0 sPostParent 9 9 ܯ[
# @# `% Hx# sEditDate rday o9 9 d L# x# # sPostKey ng arou9 9 w:
# % @# # nNewTopic selah A 9 ink they went beyond API SM standard by testin 0 y A h 2725422', '24338', 'Kia Picanto Owner', '0', 'khyee68', '5c53d92c6fda1dafa6ccaf17238e29e0', '36702', ' f] y y p 9184410', '36888', 'Facelift Nissan Sentra', '1', 'heritage', 'd3aa7099f9a89106771ca495eaa34c66', '', ' 56 A y x me,
Most Dot 3 I see in the market is red i r 'tl@ A TR3 ,% = xn ) Hidden o q $R3 8 9 @ cC$ l% P # % sOldUserID 9 9 Pq 9 # % `% " sMessage erday oY 9 ES ('45761','Brake fluid- Dot3 or Dot4 ?', '', '', '59600', 'coolbird', ' ' y Y ` other extreme is people driving on the right lane at slow speed with
hazard lights on during raining. !\n ! y h isco 7000 in Klang ! ! 2006-06-13 08:03:31.000 y ! p 7145132', '10919', 'HONK TWICE WHEN U SEE THIS CAR!', '1', 'promoking', '8aaa8a8b2ecdefcebb25f68713bd3a97 iy y H silver, i prefer black, cause its cool, blue also quite nice, sharp
colour, hope to get my city asap ' coy y @ src=\"http://202.157.189.199/forum/images/emoticons/smile_approve.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"Approve\"> els. y hD x( x( D ab 1 h4 ( y version have alot of vacume flying here and there, so you may need to
disable / block some to use. @ y p) p) crlf]Can I add some Dot 4 to Dot 3 and vise-versa? ( I ask this because I\'m
not sure what type of brake oil using in my car now- My current brake oil
is quite fade compare to the dark color one of my friend\'s car)?
Can or not ?
cheers y @ x0043379', '36876', 'Excellent N16', '0', 'ceebee6873', '88a807a53490dc482c96c5c481ac2fcc', '30733', ' ks Si y TE ibf_topics SET posts='2', last_post='1116292345', last_poster_name='Phibes',last_poster_userid='Phibes@1', last_poster_id='39076' WHERE tid='45760';
! e Headlights?? t: y ! ) nza...its unethical..
if me, i will never do it...because i dont want people to do it on my car.
A y ( too bothered about the expiry... another 5 yrs 24 y A could always drop by at any Traffic Police Station and have a check
with them as they should help you. y y \ 3937085', '36953', 'fully syn on new engine??', '0', 'fooyc', '77fa056fe073fb8fdc558edd877a09eb', '50782 . y - - type of brake oil in my wira, can I add either Dot 3
or Dot 4 ? How to check my current brake oil is Dot 3 or Dot 4? Can Dot 3
and Dot 4 be mixed?
=> Wira can use either DOT3 or DOT4. see the gasket... it did stated
there. DOT3 is yellowish/brownish color. DOT4 is clear color... white
clear color.
2. How often we need to change or add power steering oil? Why the power
steering oil still in the same level since last 3 yrs ago i bought it?
=> Power steering oil wont reduce. It reduce, probably is leaking. You
only need to change when the power steering performance is reduce... );
y 2 9758131', '12292', 'Best fuel for Honda City Vtec', '0', 'machzero', '23d8e02208f750f64a16fa574b47e779', ' y y 6 0160263', '10893', 'Gua Musang - Jeli, route 66', '0', 'cygnus', '1765976479fdc0ffdb389fdd5f8ab6af', '7643 y y h !
#7
Posted 09 July 2006 - 10:17 PM
mych
-
- Members
-
- 7,789 posts
White Lightning
thanks to the technical details... now I know fooling arounf with DOT 5 and Dot4/3 is a big No No
"The single most common brake system failure caused by a contaminant is
swelling of the rubber components (piston seals etc.) due to the
introduction of petroleum based products (motor oil, power steering
fluid, mineral oil etc.) A small amount is enough to do major damage.
Flushing with mineral spirits is enough to cause a complete system
failure in a short time. I suspect this is what has happened when some
BMW owners changed to DOT 5 (and then assumed that silicone caused the
problem). Flushing with alcohol also causes problems. BMW brake systems
should be flushed only with DOT 3 or 4. "
#8
Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:38 AM
noname78
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- Members
-
- 10,087 posts
Hot Rod
vr2turbo,
hehee... forget what is DOT3 color already but i know it dark color
compare to DOT4 which is clear color...
hehee... forget what is DOT3 color already but i know it dark color
compare to DOT4 which is clear color...
#9
Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:42 AM
Tourist
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- Members
-
- 6,715 posts
White Lightning
I don`t think you can rely on color to know what DOT it is. Last time, DOT3
is red but now there are also clear colored one. Very confusing. Same goes
for coolant nowadays.
is red but now there are also clear colored one. Very confusing. Same goes
for coolant nowadays.
#10
Posted 10 July 2006 - 02:15 PM
noname78
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- Members
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- 10,087 posts
Hot Rod
normally the DOT4 is clear color. so far havent see DOT4 is different
color...
DOT4 have higher range of heat which give immediate boost in braking (my
personal experience). if driving in normal condition and want extra
braking power, changing from DOT3 to DOT4 will do...
coolant color is vary from brand to brand. standard is green. but last
time i used is blue color.. duno wat brand already.
color...
DOT4 have higher range of heat which give immediate boost in braking (my
personal experience). if driving in normal condition and want extra
braking power, changing from DOT3 to DOT4 will do...
coolant color is vary from brand to brand. standard is green. but last
time i used is blue color.. duno wat brand already.
