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Any Fully Mod NA Proton`s Car That Can Beat TypeR?


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#21
4g91freak

Posted 22 February 2002 - 10:06 AM

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well, guess this topic gonna be dead, since theres no logic of comparing due to so many facts of this and that, but anyway, i believe with those kindda research and money honda spend, they still have the upper hand, maybe we should compare turbo to turbo with mitsu, subaru n nissan, they are well known for developing a good turbo 4 runner

#22
llsaw

Posted 22 February 2002 - 10:41 AM

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There is really no point comparing manufcturers. They`re all good.

#23
seantang

Posted 22 February 2002 - 10:47 AM

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Nobody`s saying that Proton/Mitsu engines surpass Honda engines technically. In fact, everyone who posted accepts that at every level/$ of modification, a Honda road engine will yield more power than an equivalent Proton/Mitsu road engine.

What we are saying is that to draw this conclusion based on the situation where Honda is in F1 while Mitsu isn`t - is errorneous. Why??!!

Because this automatically assumes that a mfr who is in F1 will automatically produce road engines which contain technology used in their F1 engines.

And also, this automatically assumes that a mfr which makes F1 engines also make good road car engines. Inversely, you also assume that a mfr who doesn`t make F1 engines will automatically make inferior road engines as well.

Well, the logic of that kind of absurd reasoning is like: "my car is fast because my father drives a fast car". An F1 engine bears no relation to a road going engine.

Your car doesn`t not become fast by association. It`s either fast or it`s not. Assess a car/engine by it`s individual merits. Not the merits of a distant, distant, distant stable mate.

#24
Joe Prince

Posted 22 February 2002 - 04:38 PM

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i`ve seen a modded Wira (1.8 NA) outdrag a modded ITR and (stock) VR4 before. So it`s possible for this to happen.

See the MIVEC vs VTEC posting. the owner of this car replied to those postings before but pretended to be blur about the car.

A modded 4G93 will outdrag a B16A however it is all very subjective. It very much depends on the driver as well as the initial launch is the most important for similiar powered cars.

Still this topic has been an interesting debate for a long long time.

Drive safe! I`d rather be racing in BT3 la.

#25
Glee

Posted 22 February 2002 - 04:56 PM

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i guess in short, most of the people here are trying to say, is that Honda is not the be all and end all when it comes to cars, technology, and performance.

If they`re so hot in F1, try remembering when was the last time that they won a championship?

its too subjective.. some mfrs. are better in some areas.. and some are not, simple as that.

Also, if you watch the Asian Festival of Speed series, you`ll see the yellow team Longmann Peuqeot 306 cars running rings around ITR`s. In Malaysia, most people don`t even know they make fast cars.

but honda still makes some pretty hot road cars thats for sure.






#26
llsaw

Posted 22 February 2002 - 08:55 PM

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Not only the Pugs but the BMW320, Toyota Altezza and sometimes the Alfa 156 and Ford Focus.

Proton campaigned the 1999/2000 British National Saloons Championship (Group N+) with a privateer outfit and managed to beat some of the said cars above including Honda.

The Honda B series engine are amongst the best NA engines ever produced but to say they are invincible is folly..

#27
czero

Posted 22 February 2002 - 09:00 PM

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Sigh Sigh Sigh.... mitsu won those WRC with turbo cars mind u. This is talking about N/A wei ! since when did turbo count as N/A.
Anyway, Honda`s F-1 engine obvious is not the same as the normal road engine. one is a V-10 and one is a pot-4. But mind you, the road car does use the same type of Valve Lift technology although not completely the same. Same concept but not same design.
Ferrari is in F-1 and their road cars are fast too. McLaren is also in F-1 and their car is still the fastest road car up till today. The point about the father is a fast driver is confusing me though. heheheh, my father drives fast i can say.. and so do I (sometimes). There is a saying "Like father like son" hahaha although it might not be the same with other people.
Anyway, would anyone explain to me why or why not a proton/mitsu engine can or can`t beat a TYPE-R ?


#28
c0ckad00

Posted 22 February 2002 - 09:56 PM

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It makes me sick each time I see a `souped up` Proton driving recklessly around the roads. Do those fellows actually think the car have becomed SPORTS CAR after changing air filter / extractor / exhaust / cables / sparkplugs? Come onlah, wake up. There are many many cars on the road whose drivers just need to step on their accelerator to outrun a proton. Furthermore, after being exposed several years overseas where normal cars come in 4 to 5 litre engines, it`s a big joke to see these proton maniacs trying to show off their cars by driving recklessly. U really think having a noisy exhaust is going to frighten a driver of a Sentra/ Altis / Civic....Come on man, these cars can make those ah bengs see dust.

#29
seantang

Posted 22 February 2002 - 11:13 PM

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Friend, what is "valve lift technology"? A Vtec`s valve train uses crank driven camshafts and rockers to move the valves. If I am not mistaken, 99% of modern road cars use the same "valve lift technology". And saying that F1 uses the same type but different is drawing too broad a comparison. With that line of logic, an F1 engine is basically the same as my 4G93. Both are internal combustion engines. Same. Just that the way the combustion is managed internally is different.

Btw... why are you hung up about the turbos and NAs? The contention was that it is wrong to draw conclusions about the quality of road engines based on F1 activity. And if I remember correctly, the last time Honda won an F1 title, they fielded a turbo engine.

#30
llsaw

Posted 23 February 2002 - 11:13 AM

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czero,

Your statement "same type of Valve Lift technology although not completely the same. Same concept but not same design" shows your very ignorance in F1 technology.

It is di rigeur in all F1 engines today to use a pneumatic air control system to close the valves. There are no valve springs as in conventional road engines. There is no additional "high cam" or VTEC cam lobe, no retainers, no valve spring caps, no VTEC system, nothing. In fact. BMW and Renault are rumoured to be NOT even using camshafts this year. There is nothing in common apart from the basic engine breathing principle.

Saying that a F1 engine uses the same valve lift technology as a road engine is akin to saying a road engine today uses the same combustion principle and technology as the first Daimler internal combustion engine.